Any ANA members here?

[Burks]

Wow. Sorry my topic has caused such a stir among everyone. Maybe I will find a small coin club in Toledo and hope for the best. I have met some really snobby collectors who brag about their AU Morgans (whoopie) and such.

 

I personally collect coins because I like the way they look or their history. Value of the coins plays a very minimal role in why I collect coins. I'm not one to just throw the coins in a jar labeled "neat stuff". I pride myself in preserving these coins and displaying them for everyone to see. Who cares if the neighbor has a nicer V Nickel than you do.

 

My questions have been answered well beyond what I expected. If needed this topic can be closed or whatever the admins see fit. ANA just doesn't seem to be the place for a lowly person like myself.

[Prethen]

"Burks", I think you're taking this thread the wrong way. I think just about everyone here is saying, if you're at all interested in numismatics and can afford the $36 (or less) per year, join the ANA...it's a no-brainer. I don't know why I waited so long myself.

 

I think some people here are just trying to be creative with their answer to you and it's coming off wrong.

[Burks]

I think some people here are just trying to be creative with their answer to you and it's coming off wrong.

 

Oh how it has come off wrong.

[bobbycoin]

The ANA is for the elite few numismatists who form a special subset.  We trade among ourselves at prices not...

 

 

I continue to be amazed...

 

Look, how "elite" can it be if they let anyone join for $35?

 

Why do people not join the ANA?

 

They are penny wise and pound foolish.

 

How many ways can I say it?

 

I am sorry if people feel bad about it, but the fact is that the ANA has been America's coin club since 1891.  They are chartered by Congress to serve the hobby.  If you do not think that means you, then fine.

 

The issue here is someone changing tune as the thread goes on...

 

..That or they did a realy bad job of being sarcastic.

 

-Bobby

[bobbycoin]

Oh how it has come off wrong.

 

I have to apoligize also that the thread went this way, But these are the type of thread where a lot of information comes out.

 

-Bobby

[Dan769]

Hey, this what what we need a around here, some good old fashion coin talk fiestiness.

[Art]

Hello gang!

 

I think the "elite" collector stuff was part of an attempt to present the arguments for the ANA using a funny and off-beat approach that included some sarcasm. Seeing that I'm pretty familiar with the folks posting most of the stuff, I feel free to say that.

 

It was all intended as fun. NOW it's getting a little carried away. The ANA is not in any way an elitest organization. Members come from all walks of life and income stratas. I can assure you that there are YNs in the ANA who work as interns at the conventions and such and have a net worth that puts mine to shame. They still work and save and display because they love collecting - not because they are elitest. The same is true of many adults in the ANA. I have several friends who are "local" collectors and ANA members who collect only US Gold. Fantastic collections, but really nice, down-to-earth, sharing folks.

 

Please put all those remarks aside and join or don't based upon what the ANA can do for you and for Numismatics in general.

 

Thank you.

[Tiffibunny]

Art.

[bobbycoin]

Ty Art for clearing that up...

 

Im so used to seeing after posts made in jest.

 

-Bobby

[tommyd]

So, yes, Michael was being facetious and Art a calming influence -- nothing changes the fact that the ANA is THE organization which epitomizes the very essence of how and why we all even know each other. I've been a member of the ANA for twenty-five years and converted to a life-member some years back -- I'm certainly NOT an elitist and NOT an arrogant snob who cares if he know more or less than the next guy does about the wonderful world of Numismatics -- I derive just as much pleasure in teaching a young, wide-eyed collector as I do in learning things I never knew. Joining the ANA is simply the natural course of events if you love this hobby -- plain and simple. I have contacts on my 'Buddy List' that would surprise most and NEVER hesitate to utilize my membership in any way necessary. The NUMISMATIST is informative, enjoyable and even humorous and is a superbly printed monthly magazine. Read Michael Marotta's latest column or Donn Pearlman's tongue-in-cheek comments then 'trash' the magazine that 'comes along for the $35 annual fee'...

[Scottishmoney]

  Read Michael Marotta's latest column or Donn Pearlman's tongue-in-cheek comments then 'trash' the magazine that 'comes along for the $35 annual fee'...

 

 

You actually read Donn Pearlmanns comments? I get about 12 pages from the end of the mag and it hits the shredder.

[28Plain]

In the book, Confessions of a Numismatic Fanatic, Frank Robinson tells of the time that the headlines carried a story about a Brasher Doubloon changing hands at auction.  His coin buddies were all awed.  He said that he had coins rarer than a Brasher doubloon.  They were Chinese cash and cost him no more than a few dollars each and were unique.  Unique.  He studied the coins, learned all he could find out about them.  He learned to read Chinese.  That is numismatics to me.

 

The Judge is one of my favorite people in this hobby though I haven't yet read his book. That should go on my 'to do list" for this year, along with remembering to get home early on Sunday afternoons in hopes of being first to see his thrice a year list.

[GDJMSP]

Yeah I'm an ANA member - and most of you here know me. Some of you know me pretty well - others do not. But for those that do - you know what kind of person I am. And I agree, Michael's attempt at sarcasm didn't come off very well. But then that's because not everybody knows Michael. Sometimes my posts don't come off very well either with people that don't know me well.

 

But I gotta say this - there are great many collectors out there who take what Michael had to say as gospel - without ever reading what he said. Because that IS the opinion that a great many collectors have of the ANA. And that I believe was the point that Michael was trying to make.

 

Now I find that sad, but sad or not it's true. There are far too many who think of the ANA members as being a bunch of elitists- stereotyping at it's worst. But nothing could be further from the truth. The vast majority of ANA members will break their backs trying to help others. They'll spend countless hours doing research about a coin that somebody asks a question about. They get nothing out of it - they do it to help someone, a fellow collector that they've never even met before.

 

Kinda reminds of you of some of the people around here doesn't it ? Well - that's because some of the people around here ARE ANA members. There are others that are not members yes, and they try just as hard to help others. But they're the same kind of people members or not.

 

So if you want to learn about this hobby we all love - and share that knowledge with others while doing so - then join the ANA. You'll find a whole lot of people just like you already there.

[Burks]

Thank you all for the replies. This is why I love CoinPeople. We all know how hard it is to spot sarcasm (well sometimes) over the Internet and I guess what Michael said struck me as being an "off" comment.

 

Kinda reminds of you of some of the people around here doesn't it ? Well - that's because some of the people around here ARE ANA members.

 

YUP! That's why I am still here. I love the people here and how everyone is willing to help. As you noticed, I may have asked some pretty dumb questions over the last few weeks and have had more than enough information thrown at me, which is great.

 

I'll see how the bills work out next month and if I can afford it, I'll join. There are worse ways to waste $36

[whohah]

I let my ANA membership lapse many moons ago due to a financial crunch. And, as in so many other areas of my life, it just became easier to 'forget' about them than to think of them.

 

This thread , and the latest copy of Numismatic News with all the coverage of the recent convention, has awakend my interest in re-joining. I know I won't get my old 5-digit membership number back; however, if all goes very well, I may get a Life membership.

 

I'd forgotten about the Library. I've been to a few ANA conventions and they are a blast! The 99% of the folks I've met thru ANA are all right. Better than all right, they want to spread the joy they've had to others. ANA is a powerful voice in Washington. ANA supports the local and regional clubs, too.

 

I guess I've talked myself into getting back in...

[mmarotta]

Thanks to Art (twice), Prethen, Ukraina Dvi, Blackhawk, Tiffibunny, tommyd, GDJMSP, and whohah for plucking my chestnuts from the fire. I went back and re-read my first reply in a different tone of voice.

 

Factually -- just factually -- there is nothing I would retract, humor, sarcasm, or whatever aside. If joining the ANA were really worth it to the average collector, then more average collectors would join -- and stay joined. (The ANA has about a 1/3 turnover in new members each year.) The fact is that most of the 30,000 ANA members subscribe or have subscribed to Coin World and/or Numismatic News, but that the overwhelming majority, two-to-one, of Coin World subscribers are not ANA members. There must be some reason why.

 

The disconnect in my first reply came at this line:

"The ANA is for the elite few numismatists who form a special subset." Nothing in that said anything about "looking down their noses at you."

jtryka: "This type of good ol' down home elitist crap is just what our hobby needs, after all, you can never have too many snobs looking down their noses at you while you are just trying to enjoy a hobby in your spare time."

Apparently -- and not surprisingly -- some people think that it is impossible for someone to be excellent unless other people are worse. At a deeper level, I feel that such an attitude is the difference between jealousy and envy.

 

To me, the ANA is an egalitarian, democratic organization open to anyone -- even if you do not have the $36 per year. Anyone can attend an ANA convention. Just walk in the door and there are the world Mints, the hobby newspapers, and 300 dealers just waiting to meet you. The ANA and its members perform a wide range of community service in numismatics, not the least of which is creating those periodicals that non-members read in large numbers.

 

I did not become a numismatist when I joined the ANA. I joined the ANA because I perceived myself as a numismatist: I wanted to know about the coin more than I wanted to own the coin. If there were no ANA, I would still be me -- and I would be defining the hobby and my role in it for myself. Ultimately, we all do just that.

[Ætheling]

I did not become a numismatist when I joined the ANA.  I joined the ANA because I perceived myself as a numismatist: I wanted to know about the coin more than I wanted to own the coin.  If there were no ANA, I would still be me -- and I would be defining the hobby and my role in it for myself.  Ultimately, we all do just that.

 

 

I'm gonna have to throw my twopenn'orth in here too. As Michael's post above i too believe you don't have to be in the ANA to be a numismatist. I would regard myself as a numismatist of some sort. Perhaps an eccentric one but still i've happily gone looking stuff up and identifying coins for people on the internet i've never met before and after giving them the answer they required i've never seen them again. I do it because i enjoy it. I guess it's things like this, studying coins, learning about them and their contexts, identifying new types, finding errors, a whole scale of things ranging from the mundane to the exceptional. This is what makes a person a numismatist not the organisation they belong to.

 

And i'm perfectly sure there are elitist collectors out there that don't associate with an organisation.

 

Perhaps i'm a little slow off the mark but i sensed nothing in that thread that really went pearshaped (except my reply which went a bit OT as they often do ). Michael's initial post perhaps not as excellently crafted as usual but i guess i just know Michael better than i thought. I figured there was sarcasm in there somewhere... i'm going OT again.

 

Join the ANA or don't join the ANA, it won't make you any less of a collector or any more of a collector if you do or don't. And that's my 1/6th of a shilling on it.

[jtryka]

Apparently -- and not surprisingly -- some people think that it is impossible for someone to be excellent unless other people are worse.  At a deeper level, I feel that such an attitude is the difference between jealousy and envy. 

 

 

Ok, you got me, I am a firm believer in the "excellence requires someone to be worse" theory of coin collecting. And I guess I am jealous of the ANA and just full of bitter and spiteful envy because I am not a part of their elite organization.

 

Now pardon me if I am going over these points again, but I just want to make sure that I follow your logic completely. The ANA is an elite organization of collectors and numismatists with 30,000 member. Let's just say conservatively there are perhaps 1 million people in the US actively involved with the hobby, so that would mean only 3% of collectors are ANA members. Ok so far, that sound like an elite group, but then you only need to pay $36 a year to be a part of the group, and sometimes you don't even need that. Now the logic breaks down. You have the appearance of an elite group, without any of the actual standards that would make the group truly elite. It sounds more to me like you have a group of people chartered by Congress who can't seem to convince 97% of their target audience that they have any relevance.

 

That irrelevance was vividly illustrated when despite the ANA's "influence" in Washington, they could do nothing to stop the Smithsonian from mothballing the NNC. It wasn't until some fine members of the numismatic community stepped up to find the collection a home that we had any hope of seeing those great rarities in person again. While I am sure the ANA was supportive of these efforts, shouldn't they, the elite among the hobby have taken a lead role in ensuring that the national coin collection wouldn't be relegated to long-term storage in a basement in DC?

 

Certainly, if anyone wants to join the ANA, more power to you! It's your decision, and you should do what's best for you. Personally, I had a negative experience with the ANA for what amounts to a pretty dumb clerical error, but my negative experience was made much worse thanks to this thread and Mr. Marrotta's comments. Now if you'll all excuse me, I need to go crack open a whole lot of slabs so I can put my coin collection back into a jar where it apparently belongs.

[Ætheling]

Now if you'll all excuse me, I need to go crack open a whole lot of slabs so I can put my coin collection back into a jar where it apparently belongs.

 

 

Noooo! Don't put those splendid coins in a Jar... but feel free to crack them out and ship them to me, i can offer each of them a full furnished place in my coin cabinet and they'll be very well looked after.

 

 

So many saints.

[Guest Stujoe]

I have been a member for 5 or 6 years. I love the magazine. I also get the warm fuzzy of supporting theorganization which, regardless of all the faults people might be able to bring up, does do some good in the hobby.

 

As an aside, after 'knowing' Michael online for quite some time, his post made me smile rather than get my dander up. And he does, as usual, make some good points in the process.

[bahabully]

Loved the post Mike,, rattle them cages.... good stuff !!

 

OK - Let me see if I've read this thread right and can provide summary:

 

Upshot - Join or don't, up to you.

Moral - Wear thicker skin.,, grain of salt,,, etc.......

 

 

There were actually some interesting aspects of the hobby laced within Michaels post.....unfortunately they were "nicely" sidesteped and unaddressed by the group as we discussed the 'texture', 'color', and 'taste' of the wine.

 

So how about the meat:

Coin collecting makes folks MONEY.

ANA promotes the hobby and increased the flow of MONEY.

Go high enough in any organization and you find 1 or 3 folks who run the show and reap most of the MONEY.

SO HOW DOES ANA MAKE THESE FOLKS MONEY (that's the real purpose of ANA,, remember this is the USA)

 

I think we've adequately addressed how ANA benefits it's members culinary aptitude,, but no one's touched on how ANA elite really do "make the market". I'd be interested to hear more about how the bid dogs within the ANA employ the membership to their advantage in order to make MONEY.

 

.... pass coins between themselves at heavy discount.

..... dictate price guide 'guidance'

..... inside information,,, congressional lobbying.... etc.

Sounds sarcastic, and maybe dismissable as funny,,,,, but I'm betting there interesting truths yet undiscussed in any detail regarding these issues.

 

I like collection coins and accept that in general I'm getting screwged from a economic side 'most' of the time I buy a coin. I also enjoy the watching the coin market movement and playing within it at a low level.

 

If there's truth in there,, then I'd say a collector joining the ANA would be abit akin to a Sheep joining the Wolf's club.

Either your a dumb ol' sheep who's gonna get ate,, or

your a smart ol' sheep who's trying to stay alive long enough to learn how to be a Wolf.

 

.... Anyone in the forum know how to howl ?

 

 

"baaaaaa"

[Rabone]

One of the best satirical pieces I have read in a long time. Loved it! Needs an award for "best tongue-in-cheek" piece of 2005.

 

 

Most coin collectors do not join the ANA because you do get much for the $35 per year.  You get a magazine; that is about it.  The magazine is not that interesting.

 

You are better off keeping your money and buying whatever coins you feel like, paying whatever price you think is fair.  You can find out all about coins from the internet, by asking people here and elsewhere when you want to know something.

 

The ANA is for the elite few numismatists who form a special subset.  We trade among ourselves at prices not available to the general public.  We discover the die varieties and all that stuff and after we buy all the coins we can find from each other, then someone writes a book.  That creates collector demand and we sell to them at the next level of prices.  We call it "cherrypicking."

 

In fact, ANA members write just about every book on coin collecting  and generally speaking only ANA members buy them.  It is sort of like a co-operative.  Some books like "cherrypicking" books and the Red Book that announces prices are sold to many collectors who are not ANA members.  Those collectors are the retail market for ANA members and dealers. 

 

Say I am a dealer and I find that I have 1500 Seated Quarters in the back of the safe.  Well, I have to get rid of them.  So, when the new Red Book is being prepared, I help the editor, former ANA president Ken Bressett, set the price of Seated Quarters.  It cannot be too high, but must not be too low and it has to be high enough in the Red Book so that I can say, "The Red Book is too high... Tell you what I am going to do for you..."

 

ANA members edit and write all of the hobby periodicals: Coins, CoinAge, Coin World, Numismatic News, Coin Prices, etc., etc.  These are sold mostly to non-ANA members who figure that reading a magazine from a newsstand tells them all they need to know -- and it does.  They do not need to know more than that.  That next level of knowledge is only for ANA members.  Numismatist magazine is just for us.

 

ANA members serve on the Citizens Coin Advisory Committee and help Congress decide what coins to authorize. Congress does not always listen to us, of course.  That is Congress.  This is why certain coins are made with certain designs.  The other people who collect what they like because it feels good buy whatever is left over.  Sometimes, there is not much left over and prices on these commemoratives rise.  That is what we are looking for, of course: special profits from public programs for ANA members and ANA dealers.  Certainly, non-members get lucky and "win" the opportunity to buy a commemorative before they all run out.  If that did not happen, the market would dry up.  Think of it like a lotto: the promise of winning is why people play.

 

ANA members go to national conventions where 300 dealers from around the world compete against each other for the attention of buyers.  Most collectors bid against each other on eBay and claim that they "won" a coin by "sniping" it to the highest possible price.  Of course, having blown their money that way, most collectors "cannot afford" to go to a national convention.

 

At ANA conventions, you meet not only the US Mint, but 10 to 30 other Mints from the Ukraine, the United Kingdom, Singapore, Perth, Canada, Austria, etc.  ANA members are a huge buying block for these Mints and we help them define their marketing strategies by meeting with them privately at conventions.

 

While it is true ANA members control the hobby, you probably will not get much out of being an ANA member.

 

Look at it this way.  Over 10 million people in American claim to "collect coins."  That includes people who stash State Quarters and Kennedy Halves and whatever else they like or seems interesting.  Only 1 to 2 million people in America buy Proof Sets and Mint Sets.  Only 100,000 people subscribe to Coin World.  Only 30,000 collectors belong to the ANA.

 

Now, if the ANA were such a big deal, all those 100,000 Coin World readers would be members.  Would not most of those 2 million Proof Set buyers be members?  Maybe only half of those 10 million part time collectors would join.  None of them does because obviously the ANA is not worth $35 per year to the average collector.

[The_Cave_Troll]

One of the best satirical pieces I have read in a long time. Loved it! Needs an award for "best tongue-in-cheek" piece of 2005.

 

 

I agree!! I was literally lol as I was reading it. then I realized that some others had misinterpreted what he said as being offensive, and that made this thread even funnier than it was before. I formally nominate Michael's post for a PotW award, it was easily that good!

[bobbycoin]

Thanks for makin fun of us guys

 

man I feel like sh** cuz I didnt get the joke.... Thanks... Thanks a lot

 

-Bobby

[Sir Sisu]

Thanks for makin fun of us guys

 

man I feel like sh** cuz I didnt get the joke.... Thanks... Thanks a lot

 

-Bobby

 

 

I got the drift of Mike's joke right away and had a sinister chuckle myself too, but I guess it is because I have read enough of his material to know his style.

 

I have not wanted to post earlier because this thread seemed to go on too serious a tangent for me. However, now that you already feel like sh**, I find that I may freely add my comment without offending anyone nor making anyone feel like sh**.

 

 

 

Ähh!, it is one of the downsides of the net, when you cannot see a writer's tongue in the cheek. Do not worry about it. Having written for some time, I am sure Mike has already grown a nice layer of thick skin.