Any ANA members here?

[Burks]

Today at the state fair I picked up a paper from ANA about joining them. Is it worth the money to join? What kind of benefits can I see that they may not advertise?

 

On a side note I picked up a 1oz silver Kookabarru coin for $12

[gxseries]

Not bad for 12USD What year is it? There was some massive sale here some time ago and some dealers were selling their 2oz silver kookabarra coins for 30USD more or less.

[mmarotta]

Most coin collectors do not join the ANA because you do get much for the $35 per year. You get a magazine; that is about it. The magazine is not that interesting.

 

You are better off keeping your money and buying whatever coins you feel like, paying whatever price you think is fair. You can find out all about coins from the internet, by asking people here and elsewhere when you want to know something.

 

The ANA is for the elite few numismatists who form a special subset. We trade among ourselves at prices not available to the general public. We discover the die varieties and all that stuff and after we buy all the coins we can find from each other, then someone writes a book. That creates collector demand and we sell to them at the next level of prices. We call it "cherrypicking."

 

In fact, ANA members write just about every book on coin collecting and generally speaking only ANA members buy them. It is sort of like a co-operative. Some books like "cherrypicking" books and the Red Book that announces prices are sold to many collectors who are not ANA members. Those collectors are the retail market for ANA members and dealers.

 

Say I am a dealer and I find that I have 1500 Seated Quarters in the back of the safe. Well, I have to get rid of them. So, when the new Red Book is being prepared, I help the editor, former ANA president Ken Bressett, set the price of Seated Quarters. It cannot be too high, but must not be too low and it has to be high enough in the Red Book so that I can say, "The Red Book is too high... Tell you what I am going to do for you..."

 

ANA members edit and write all of the hobby periodicals: Coins, CoinAge, Coin World, Numismatic News, Coin Prices, etc., etc. These are sold mostly to non-ANA members who figure that reading a magazine from a newsstand tells them all they need to know -- and it does. They do not need to know more than that. That next level of knowledge is only for ANA members. Numismatist magazine is just for us.

 

ANA members serve on the Citizens Coin Advisory Committee and help Congress decide what coins to authorize. Congress does not always listen to us, of course. That is Congress. This is why certain coins are made with certain designs. The other people who collect what they like because it feels good buy whatever is left over. Sometimes, there is not much left over and prices on these commemoratives rise. That is what we are looking for, of course: special profits from public programs for ANA members and ANA dealers. Certainly, non-members get lucky and "win" the opportunity to buy a commemorative before they all run out. If that did not happen, the market would dry up. Think of it like a lotto: the promise of winning is why people play.

 

ANA members go to national conventions where 300 dealers from around the world compete against each other for the attention of buyers. Most collectors bid against each other on eBay and claim that they "won" a coin by "sniping" it to the highest possible price. Of course, having blown their money that way, most collectors "cannot afford" to go to a national convention.

 

At ANA conventions, you meet not only the US Mint, but 10 to 30 other Mints from the Ukraine, the United Kingdom, Singapore, Perth, Canada, Austria, etc. ANA members are a huge buying block for these Mints and we help them define their marketing strategies by meeting with them privately at conventions.

 

While it is true ANA members control the hobby, you probably will not get much out of being an ANA member.

 

Look at it this way. Over 10 million people in American claim to "collect coins." That includes people who stash State Quarters and Kennedy Halves and whatever else they like or seems interesting. Only 1 to 2 million people in America buy Proof Sets and Mint Sets. Only 100,000 people subscribe to Coin World. Only 30,000 collectors belong to the ANA.

 

Now, if the ANA were such a big deal, all those 100,000 Coin World readers would be members. Would not most of those 2 million Proof Set buyers be members? Maybe only half of those 10 million part time collectors would join. None of them does because obviously the ANA is not worth $35 per year to the average collector.

[Mediccoin]

Burks, I joined the ANA for one year and enjoyed the magazine they offered. I also got a loupe, laynard, and a book on collecting the ideal 20th century type set for joining, which was nice. Mike is right though, you can learn so much more right here on the internet though this and other websites. And no, I did not renew my membership with the ANA. They do have a website alsoAMA website

[Scottishmoney]

Any organisation is only as good as the members whom join and participate in it. If you have something to offer by all means join, we all benefit.

[jtryka]

I was a member for a year, though I paid for two. When I moved from Washington to Indiana, they couldn't get things straight, and when I called and told them that I paid my dues at the ANA in Portland, they said they had no record of it, so I would have to join all over again. And the woman I talked to sounded like she was a hundred, so I figure I really don't need to bother. The magazine was nice, but not worth $35. Also, it seems like I got out before the latest directory fiasco, where they wanted to have a 3rd party publisher put out a book listing all the members' names and addresses. Maybe I am cynical, but all a thief needs is a catalog of people who collect money to make their lives of crime easier. I guess they later decided to cancel that idea, still I am very glad that the people at the ANA no longer even know my correct address. Since then, I have joined my local coin club, and it costs only $7 a year and is a whole lot more fun! We have monthly meetings except in summer, auctions and door prizes at the meetings, and an annual coin show put on by the members. Plus we get to talk to each other an look at coins! Now that's a real bargain!

 

Bottom line, the ANA is fine for some people, but if you have a local coin club, I would join that way before the ANA!

[Prethen]

I just joined the ANA for a number of reasons, the least of which is for the magazine.

 

There is one phenomenal benefit that isn't always talked about. They have one of the most extensive numismatic libraries in the country (okay, probably the world) outside the Library of Congress. How would this benefit you, you say? You say you don't live anywhere near Colorado Springs? No problem, for the price of shipping, they'll ship you any book in their lobby for you to peruse at your own convenience for 6 weeks! Any book that you can normally check out! That's a lot of books that normally could cost you big bucks to obtain or otherwise just need to look through and not keep.

 

The price of admission will be paid for when I borrow the Ultimate Guide to Three Cent Nickels. It's about a $200 book and I don't want to own it, but I do want to have the chance to read through it. There are many other books that I've heard of and would be curious to see, but realize that it's unlikely I would want to any many, if any of them.

 

Also, I plan on submitting some coins to NGC. Normally there's a cost to join the NGC Collector Society, however you can submit directly to NGC if you're an ANA member.

 

And I plan on going to their summer seminar session in 2006. You have to pay a much higher fee if you're not a member.

 

Many, if not most, of the top end numismatists belong to the ANA. Granted, most novices won't join just to coin another coin club. I'm looking forward to rubbing elbows with some of the best in the business next summer!

 

My advice....JOIN!

 

Bruce

[Art]

Being an ANA member has many benefits but like most things they don't all apply to all members. The biggies on the benefit list are:

1) The Library, 2) The Numismatist, 3) Coin Collection Insurance, 4) Participating in the organization that directly effects the flow of the hobby politically and business-wise.

 

I have used the Library quite a bit. There are books as mentioned above, but there are also "slide shows", videos, and other types of materials that can be made available. To me, this is one of the major benefits.

 

I enjoy the Numismatist and figure that at newsstand prices it would sell for $3-5 per issue with subscription rates of $29.95 per year. So the $35 for membership is a minor hit over this cost. The Library is worth many times the $35 to those who use it.

 

To top it all off there are the conventions/shows twice a year and the knowledge that you are helping to keep the hobby alive and moving in the correct direction. The ANA's Y/N programs are wonderful.

[mmarotta]

  There is one phenomenal benefit that isn't always talked about.  They have one of the most extensive numismatic libraries in the country...

 

Bruce, I forgot about the Library! I will add a few lines:

 

"You get a magazine; that is about it. The magazine is not that interesting. You can borrow old books from their library. Members pay for shipping and insurance both ways and read books about 3-cent nickels and Large Cents and Morgan Dollars. These books have a lot of boring details in them."

 

How's that?

[mmarotta]

  ... Mike is right though, you can learn so much more right here on the internet though this and other websites.

 

That sound of rushing air was the main idea of my post sailing over your head.

 

I see that I was being too clever.

 

Here it is in plain English:

 

If you are not in the ANA, you are not among the elite of the hobby. You are in one of the bottom tiers. Maybe you are among the 100,000 who read Coin World. Maybe you are among some other subset -- say members of local clubs, for instance -- or maybe you are in with the 10 million other people who put interesting coins in jars.

[Scottishmoney]

  ... Mike is right though, you can learn so much more right here on the internet though this and other websites.

 

That sound of rushing air was the main idea of my post sailing over your head.

 

I see that I was being too clever.

 

Here it is in plain English:

 

If you are not in the ANA, you are not among the elite of the hobby. You are in one of the bottom tiers. Maybe you are among the 100,000 who read Coin World. Maybe you are among some other subset -- say members of local clubs, for instance -- or maybe you are in with the 10 million other people who put interesting coins in jars.

 

 

I guess I am in the elite of the hobby.

[mmarotta]

I was a member for a year, though I paid for two.  When I moved from Washington to Indiana, they couldn't get things straight, and when I called and told them that I paid my dues at the ANA in Portland, they said they had no record of it, so I would have to join all over again.  And the woman I talked to sounded like she was a hundred, so I figure I really don't need to bother.  The magazine was nice, but not worth $35. 

 

Did you have a receipt? Even if you handed over $70 in cash, you would have something to show for it. Did you have a canceled check, or a credit card statement?

 

Look, let us be brutally honest. Coin collectors are the kind of people who generally do not get along well with other people. We are introverts -- and dysfunctional introverts at that. So, when you ran into a problem, instead of dealing with it, you fell into your oppositional defiance behavior and let something bad happen to yourself. Hey, how do you think I know?

 

If you did not get the answer you needed on the phone, you could have written a letter explaining all the details -- Portland, time, date, color of hair of the clerk, whatever -- and letting someone look into it. "They" said that "they" had "no record" of it? Nonsense! If they took money, they have a record. They just needed some time to find it -- but you did not want to give it to them.

 

Like I said, we all have these quirks, or we would not be collectors, we would be gameshow hosts.

 

You owe it to yourself to catch up with the ANA. PM me with your real name and current address. Let me see what I can do -- when it comes to numismatics, I am a gameshow host.

[Scottishmoney]

[

Look, let us be brutally honest.  Coin collectors are the kind of people who generally do not get along well with other people.  We are introverts -- and dysfunctional introverts at that.  So, when you ran into a problem, instead of dealing with it, you fell into your oppositional defiance behavior and let something bad happen to yourself.  Hey, how do you think I know?

 

 

How can you get along with other people when they are all out to steal your coins from you?

[mmarotta]

... And I plan on going to their summer seminar session in 2006.  You have to pay a much higher fee if you're not a member.

 

The U.S. Secret Service sends agents to the ANA Summer Seminars.

 

It goes without saying that the instructors are the best in their fields. What is interesting is to see an instructor from one class sitting as a student in a another class. Learning is for life.

[bobbycoin]

My thought:

 

Depending on what type of collector you are, any organization may or may not be for you.

 

Me personaly, I would not join any club I had to pay anything more than a couple bucks to pay for a small newsletter or something. Coin prices? I ignore them. The redbook, used for refrence only, rarely do I look at a price guide at all

 

If I want a coin, I buy it. And I buy it at a price that I believe it is worth. If I want a coin and I think it would be better to have that coin then the $20 in my pocket, I would pay $20 for it even if redbook (or grey sheet or whatever) says its only worh 50 cents. Ripped off? no, Happy becasue I got a coin at the price I wanted to pay (plus I prob made that dealers day also).

 

All this talk abotu being an Elite or better then others becausee you are in a club.... meh. You can be just as educated and just as good (or better) a collector not being in any organizations then people who are. No tiers... No elite.. no one is speacial. We are coin collectors, period!

 

Conclution: Join the club if you beelive ethe beifits will benifit you, dont do it for the status.

 

All IMHO of coarse

 

-Bobby

[Tiffibunny]

Yes I am a member. It is worth the money if you use the services and information offered. If you don't then it's not worth it.

[jtryka]

I paid with cash at the Portland ANA, even though my membership wasn't up for renewal until May (if I recall correctly, I initially joined at the PNNA show in 2003). I paid cash for my renewal and I received a receipt which I lost when I moved 2,456 miles to my new home. I also bought a Chicago ANA medal from them, but that I paid for with a credit card and found an old statement with the charges, but fortunately I carried the medal with me when I left.

 

And yes, the octagenerian I spoke with on the phone said they had no record of receiving my dues for 2004-2005, so either she didn't look, or she lied. I personally have no insights into the accounting or control environment within the ANA, but I wasn't going to argue with an elderly lady on the phone. I thought about writing a letter, but I really don't have time, plus I was under the impression that the Association was there to serve their membership, not make their members go through all sorts of hassles just to be a member. I'll be happy to send you my name and address, and if you want to put your game show host skills to the test, have at it.

 

Finally, I could do without your amateur psychoanalysis, but since we are on the subject, you might want to look into the insecurities presented in this thread by folks who seem to believe that you must join the ANA to be an "elite" collector. This type of good ol' down home elitist crap is just what our hobby needs, after all, you can never have too many snobs looking down their noses at you while you are just trying to enjoy a hobby in your spare time. For you "elite" collectors that are members of the ANA, it certainly appears your $35 was well spent, giving you the added self-esteem needed to think yourselves better than your fellow collectors. As for me, I'll let my coins testify as to my experience and knowledge of numismatics. And one last thing, I have had the pleasure of meeting in person a number of great collectors, the types of collectors that end up with pedigrees on their TPG holders, and the one thing these truly great numismatists had in common, was that they never proclaimed themselves elite. Instead, they were pleased to talk about virtually any aspect of the hobby with collectors who had far less experience and disposable income than they had.

[Blackhawk]

I am a member, and have been before (I let my membership lapse). Although they are trying to reach out lately to all collectors, the ANA is the representative group of many of those collectors who's collections are featured in books, magazines, and auctions. I don't believe that there's much snob appeal there that can be attributed to the ANA though...most of the people who have those collections are students of numismatics and the research that they do is a boon for all collectors whether they belong to the ANA or not. There are some collectors who don't have time for newbies and small collectors, but I have not found many of these in any circle of numismatists, most are willing to help you with you collection. This goes for many of the big guys also...I have written to many of the "elite" collectors who's names are thrown about in the collecting circle and I can tell you that although my questions were probably at about third grade level to them, they always answered nicely and shared their knowledge.

 

I have never used the library, although I'd like to on occasion-I seldom read the magazine from cover to cover either. The reason that I joined is to make a contribution to US numismatics and the continuence of collecting as a hobby.

[bobbycoin]

Finally, I could do without your amateur psychoanalysis, but since we are on the subject, you might want to look into the insecurities presented in this thread by folks who seem to believe that you must join the ANA to be an "elite" collector.  This type of good ol' down home elitist crap is just what our hobby needs, after all, you can never have too many snobs looking down their noses at you while you are just trying to enjoy a hobby in your spare time.  For you "elite" collectors that are members of the ANA, it certainly appears your $35 was well spent, giving you the added self-esteem needed to think yourselves better than your fellow collectors.  As for me, I'll let my coins testify as to my experience and knowledge of numismatics.  And one last thing, I have had the pleasure of meeting in person a number of great collectors, the types of collectors that end up with pedigrees on their TPG holders, and the one thing these truly great numismatists had in common, was that they never proclaimed themselves elite.  Instead, they were pleased to talk about virtually any aspect of the hobby with collectors who had far less experience and disposable income than they had.

 

Agreed...

 

mmarottas post left a very bad taste in my mouth and my view towards ANA members was "Wow, thats how they are? Talk about a head trip, hollier then thou huh?"

 

Then I realized the others in this thread that say they are members and I have worked with them before and never had 1% of a problem.

 

Now I am back to seeing the ANA as a group of collectors, and as all groups of collectors, some think they are better then the rest. Thx Tiff and Blackhawk for restoring my faith in organized coin groups.

 

-Bobby

[Scottishmoney]

Don't let the impression that one person gives you about the ANA decide your opinion of the organisation. I rejoined the ANA last year, and have benefited greatly from membership in this organisation.

 

ANA members are just average people like most of us. There are a few snobs, and a few that think they are smarter than the rest of us, but that is society in general.

 

Your membership in the ANA is beneficial if you are willing to share your knowledge with others, and are willing to help say Young Numismatists etc. But you help out even if you share your opinions when you vote for the board of directors like I did recently and voted for candidates I believed would steer the organisation as a whole towards promoting coin collecting as a hobby.

[Ætheling]

Me personaly, I would not join any club I had to pay anything more than a couple bucks to pay for a small newsletter or something. Coin prices? I ignore them. The redbook, used for refrence only, rarely do I look at a price guide at all

 

If I want a coin, I buy it. And I buy it at a price that I believe it is worth. If I want a coin and I think it would be better to have that coin then the $20 in my pocket, I would pay $20 for it even if redbook (or grey sheet or whatever) says its only worh 50 cents. Ripped off? no, Happy becasue I got a coin at the price I wanted to pay (plus I prob made that dealers day also).

 

All this talk about being an Elite or better then others because you are in a club.... meh. You can be just as educated and just as good (or better) a collector not being in any organizations then people who are. No tiers... No elite.. no one is special. We are coin collectors, period!

 

 

This is my way of thinking. Coin price guides? Who needs them... (says he who helps write one, but you know). Generally i'm in the school of buy on eye appeal, if you like the coin and you have the money for it. Well you only live once might as well just go and grab it, if it's overpriced does it really matter? Happiness and money are not necessarily the same thing. I'd personally would rather have the coin.

 

As for coin clubs i've never had the urge to join one. That and the UK doesn't have an equivalent of the ANA, the BNTA is the nearest but that's for dealers only i believe. Although i do try and buy from BNTA dealers because it's a good sign that their coins are genuine!

[mmarotta]

mmarottas post left a very bad taste in my mouth and my view towards ANA members was "Wow, thats how they are? Talk about a head trip, hollier then thou huh?"... Tiff and Blackhawk for restoring my faith in organized coin groups.

 

I continue to be amazed...

 

Look, how "elite" can it be if they let anyone join for $35?

 

Why do people not join the ANA?

 

They are penny wise and pound foolish.

 

How many ways can I say it?

 

I am sorry if people feel bad about it, but the fact is that the ANA has been America's coin club since 1891. They are chartered by Congress to serve the hobby. If you do not think that means you, then fine.

[mmarotta]

... And one last thing, I have had the pleasure of meeting in person a number of great collectors, the types of collectors that end up with pedigrees on their TPG holders, and the one thing these truly great numismatists had in common, was that they never proclaimed themselves elite.  Instead, they were pleased to talk about virtually any aspect of the hobby with collectors who had far less experience and disposable income than they had.

 

Well, yes, there is that. You do confuse "collector" with "numismatist." I am not a collector. Registry sets do not impress me. They are fine. I am happy for the people who are happy owning them. But a registry set just proves that no matter how nice your coins are, someone has nicer ones. Competing with others on that basis is not for me. It is obviously fine for many other people.

 

Disposable income is another point. And it shows why "collectors" are not necessarily "numismatists" and vice versa. In the ANA and other clubs, the competitive Exhibits, you get judged on how hard you worked to assemble the material on display. The ANA and other clubs want to discourage people from walking into a coin store with a wad of cash, walking out with a few eye-knocking rarities and then putting them in a jeweler's case at a convention. That is not numismatics.

 

In the book, Confessions of a Numismatic Fanatic, Frank Robinson tells of the time that the headlines carried a story about a Brasher Doubloon changing hands at auction. His coin buddies were all awed. He said that he had coins rarer than a Brasher doubloon. They were Chinese cash and cost him no more than a few dollars each and were unique. Unique. He studied the coins, learned all he could find out about them. He learned to read Chinese. That is numismatics to me.

[Ætheling]

Disposable income is another point.  And it shows why "collectors" are not necessarily "numismatists" and vice versa.  In the ANA and other clubs, the competitive Exhibits, you get judged on how hard you worked to assemble the material on display.  The ANA and other clubs want to discourage people from walking into a coin store with a wad of cash, walking out with a few eye-knocking rarities and then putting them in a jeweler's case at a convention.  That is not numismatics.

 

 

If this is aimed at me i should point out i'm working on some rather tough sets, not because other people like then but because i get a kick out of it and i like the history. History is my love it always has been.

[Tiffibunny]

We're starting to go in a bad direction here. Keep it light, folks.