Scottishmoney Posted March 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Ancients are a case of extremes though Dave. From the pinnacle of artistic beauty at one end, to the Celtic squiggles and swirls at the other. Actually from an artistic standpoint there are some Celtic coins I like for the form they have. I still think Greek coins are the loveliest around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 The discussion about what is crude, what is artistic, what is attractive, what is collectible, etc really relates to one's personal definition of the terms. We can probably agree that many medieval coins are crude in comparison to a Walking Liberty half or an Athenian owl, but they might be very attractive depending on the attributes that define attractive for your situation. The history, the patina, attributes of the die, the strike, the planchet, preservation, symbolism, the research to attribute the coin, etc contribute to attractiveness. Clearly many do not find medieval coins attractive and extreme rarities sell for amounts far less than some more common American coins. Thankfully, the diversity of interests keep my speciality mostly within my price range. We should each collect those coins that we find attractive. It is, after all, a hobby meant to produce some measure of pleasure, satisfaction, knowledge, and relaxation. I enjoy coins of all types and love sitting with another collector and hearing about why they enjoy their collection. That's why I enjoy Coin People. How boring it would be if we all collected the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiffibunny Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Well said, Bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikaros Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 How boring it would be if we all collected the same thing. Not to mention expensive! Can you imagine every member here going all-out on the exact same coin on eBay? Ow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sisu Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 I put my vote with not knowing much about them. But there are really a number of reasons why I do not collect them at this point in time. -I am trying to stay somewhat focused on what I currently collect. -I have little to no knowledge about ancient coins, and thus the background work to learn about them would require a fair investment of time that I would prefer to dedicate elsewhere right now. -The forgeries and fakes bit would somewhat fall under lack of knowledge. -Despite a few nice ones that I have seen here, I have a personal preference for rounded milled coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggit Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 I think they are very attractive, but like most others I don't have enough knowledge about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stilson Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 I have a few from one. Some just recognizable and id'ed. My problem is patience. I have thought about picking up some ready to go coins. But do like the clean them your self coins. I've got one batch sitting in olive oil now. I've got some were patience lost out. I'll drop them in omnicoin and post in this forum later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernos Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Ancients are a case of extremes though Dave. From the pinnacle of artistic beauty at one end, to the Celtic squiggles and swirls at the other. Must take issue, Ætheling, being primarily a Celtic coin collector, as IMO the pinnacle of artistic beauty was attained by the ancient Celts, eg That said I agree in general. The artistry of the Greeks has rarely been surpassed (except by Celts) and Roman silver is historically interesting and very affordable. From 800 to 1800 it is all crosses and heads, with some exceptions (I love cartwheels, eg). Modern stuff is the same old thing over and over, political crap on one side, boring on the other and all ruined by grading services and 'investers'. I find little of artistic merit in modern coinage. Medallions are another story, as are some pre-modern issues. I have a small Victorian collection. I started with Celtic, because I was in Celtic studies and have the collecting gene, but quickly found that to understand the Celts I had to understand the Greeks and Romans, so got bit by their collecting bugs. We are all related. All that said, beauty is indeed in the eyes of the beholder. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 All that said, beauty is indeed in the eyes of the beholder. Oh, if I only had the budget for that series! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie582 Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Surely it's 'horses for courses'? I started with circulation pennies in the 1940's when good Victorian were still around but became intregued with hammered coins. Edwards led to wondering about history (real not propoganda) and I wandered into Celtic, Roman, Byzantine but came back to Plantagenet only because the history is so convoluted! I guess I'm trying to say everyone has diferent reasons for our hobby and it's no use trying to "justify" our stance to others. We'll never agree! Tiff, Why were you strung up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ætheling Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Must take issue, Ætheling, being primarily a Celtic coin collector, as IMO the pinnacle of artistic beauty was attained by the ancient Celts, eg That said I agree in general. The artistry of the Greeks has rarely been surpassed (except by Celts) and Roman silver is historically interesting and very affordable. From 800 to 1800 it is all crosses and heads, with some exceptions (I love cartwheels, eg). Modern stuff is the same old thing over and over, political crap on one side, boring on the other and all ruined by grading services and 'investers'. I find little of artistic merit in modern coinage. Medallions are another story, as are some pre-modern issues. I have a small Victorian collection. I started with Celtic, because I was in Celtic studies and have the collecting gene, but quickly found that to understand the Celts I had to understand the Greeks and Romans, so got bit by their collecting bugs. We are all related. All that said, beauty is indeed in the eyes of the beholder. Bill Point taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmarotta Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 * No, they are too old. [ 0 ] [0.00%] (No votes. Perhaps "too old" is not well-defined and numismatics is an antiquarian hobby by its nature.) No, they are too expensive [ 3 ] [15.79%] (Though not usually found in pocket change, this is seldom a concern as they can be affordable and collectors spend money on their passions, anyway.) No, I don't know anything about them [ 11 ] [57.89%] I just finished reading a biography of JOHN ADAMS by David McCullough. You'd be surprised what we don't know anything about. I guess it depends on your usual sources of information. Perhaps a cogent poll would ask that: how do you find out about the hobby? About your interests? No, I am afraid of forgeries, fakes etc. [ 5 ] [26.32%] This is my big fear. I have my own preferences for avoiding problems. I shop certain dealers only and I like to get documentation with my coins -- the original packaging -- whenever possible. Knowing them intuitively helps... but I have horror stories of my own about important and knowledgeable dealers at famous conventions who got bitten by fakes. Even though I once attributed a lot of 250 of them for a dealer, I now believe that we have absolutely no idea what a genuine "widow's mite" looks like. They have been manufactured anew since the Crusades. An article in a Celator (March 2004?) showed fakes salted into bulk lots of cheap uncleaned Romans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyd Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 I also didn't vote because I really like ancients -- but I do agree with Michael that unless you know the dealer's reputation -- beware! It's just plain common sense that a 'crude' piece would be so much more easy to counterfeit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie582 Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 There is the thought that with ancients, worn examples would be safest! That way you avoid the 'lead free copies' being 'aged'.(there are examples of copies of worn coins, but only if rare) My preference is for well circulated coins but that is only because I can speculate on how many hands it has passed through and what dramas it has been involved with! (I have a vivid imagination!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedeadpoint Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I don't know anything about them. I think they are gorgeous and fascinating but I'm also weary of fakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echizento Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I also collect ancients. Their great age and history appeal to me. I find it amazing that a coin that is over 2000 years old could look like it was minted yesterday. as a history buff to be able to associate a coin to a place and time when a great historical event occurred fascinating. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I collect em, they WERE all I collected for a long time until I got into modern coins as well...now I collect everything but my first love and emphasis is still ancients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcumbor Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Hello, Most people voted they wouldn't collect ancients as they don't know nothing about them : read and learn.... Qcumbor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
see323 Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 I used to have an ancient Greek coin which I purchased it from a Perth coin shop in Australia in 1987. I did some research on it only in 2004 when I selling it away. At that time, it was my most treasured old coin when I first started with my coin collection. I will find the pic and show it to everyone. Together with this Greek coin, there are a few other coins I purchased from the same shop. There is one strange ( to me ) early Thailand copper coin which I still have it with me. I will have to find it. It's somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reid Goldsborough Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Why Wouldn't You Collect Ancients? Coin collectors don't collect ancients because they're ignorant, dumb, lazy, or xenophobic (the latter being a combination of ignorance, dumbness, and laziness). 1. Ignorant They don't know anything about them, and ignorance breeds fear. Ancient coins can't be found in pocket change, can't be fitted neatly in Whitman folders or other prearranged groupings, come from many different countries, were minted over many centuries, and have legends in many languages and often in different alphabets, those that have legends. Collecting ancient coins requires you to read. 2. Dumb They don't have the ability to read. 3. Lazy They don't have the desire to read. 4. Xenophobic They regard American coins (or the coins of their own country) as the only ones worth collecting, being afraid or hostile toward ancient as well as world coins or being uninterested in general about anything beyond their parochial horizons. As a result of this ignorance, some regard ancient coins as crude. If they read (or even just looked), they would see that the most refined and beautiful and evocative coins ever minted were minted by the ancients, particularly by the ancient Greeks. But even if the Celts produced stunningly beautiful numismatic art, though in their case it was nonrepresentational and abstract, the difference between a Picasso and Rembrandt painting. If they read, they would understand the difference between the artistry that went into the design and hand cutting of the coin dies (often though of course not always inspired) and the technology that went into the preparation and hand striking of the planchets (primitive). Unlike with current American coins, ancient coins weren't designed by committees that tried to appease every loud interest group out there and offend no one. (You may be surprised to learn that I'm not like that myself.) As a result, state quarter designs and just about every other U.S. coin design over the past century or so is typically deadly dull and uninspired (there are exceptions). Modern European coin designers don't appear to be as constrained by their political overseers (there are exceptions here too) and have produced much more creative, interesting, and eye-appearling work. Besides the sheer beauty of their design, there are two other reasons ancient Greek coins in particular are more inspiring than U.S. coins. First is their high relief, the reason a high relief Saint is so much more impressive than a business strike Saint. Ancient Greek coins are sculptural. In this case it's not the fault of modern coins or coin designers but an unavoidable reality of modern coin manufacture and usage. The other reason for the attractiveness of ancients of course is their history. Western civilization originated in Greece. The ancient Greeks took the relatively inchoate antecedents they inherited from Mesopotamia and Egypt and developed them into science and democracy, into experimentation, discovery, and reason, the cornerstones of our society today. This heritage shines through on the coins. Rome took what it inherited from Greece and spread it through Europe. Though this heritage was largely lost during the Dark and Middle Ages (faith not reason was the dominant reality), it was rediscovered during the Renaissance, and it proceeded to be lost again by the current U.S. administration (faith not reason is again the dominant reality). So join the ancient coin collecting community, and you too can be a stuck-up, condescending babbler. Actually, the serious answer is that collecting ancients requires more work and comes with more risk. The work, though, can be exquisitely rewarding, shedding light into our origins, and the risk can be controlled by smart buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topher Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 I wouldn't mind starting a collection by type, but I wouldn't know where to begin, what to look for, how to avoid a fake, etc. I've got enough other sets that are in various stages of completion (on non-completion) to keep me busy for a while. One day I hope to collect ancient coins, but I'll be on the coin forums for advice and education first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reid Goldsborough Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 There are lots of type sets you could build, including inexpensive ones with very little risk of fakes. Here's just one, which I've personally done, a House of Constantine bronze set: http://rg.ancients.info/constantine Others have done other sets. You could focus, for instance, on Roman army campgate bronzes from various emperors (depicting on the reverse the entrance of Roman army encampments), or Roman FEL TEMP bronzes from various emperors (dramatically depicting on the reverse a Roman army horseman spearing an enemy soldier). As with a House of Constantine set, both of these would also be very inexpensive -- $10 to $20 a coin, more if you go with very well preserved or rarer varieties, less if you go with pick bin coins. Greeks are maybe three times more expensive on average than Romans (with lots of exceptions). You move up in price also as you go from bronze to silver to gold coins. Here's one way to get started, another page of mine: http://rg.ancients.info/guide/ancients.html Another way to get started is buying Wayne Sayles' book Ancient Coin Collecting Vol. I. Something like $20, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 I wouldn't mind starting a collection by type, but I wouldn't know where to begin, what to look for, how to avoid a fake, etc. I've got enough other sets that are in various stages of completion (on non-completion) to keep me busy for a while. One day I hope to collect ancient coins, but I'll be on the coin forums for advice and education first. Dont be ignorant, dumb, lazy, or...uh... xenophobic!! You must collect ancients right now or you are all of the above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reid Goldsborough Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Dont be ignorant, dumb, lazy, or...uh... xenophobic!! You must collect ancients right now or you are all of the above Actually, you can be ignorant, dumb, lazy, and xenophobic, or any one or any combination of the above, and still collect ancient coins. You know that, right? Oh, and I left out crazy as a reason for not collecting ancients. You'd have to be crazy to be interested in coins and not have one ancient in your collection. Then again, I think everybody is crazy who doesn't find any appeal to coin collecting. I guess I'm crazy. An ancient coin is a direct connection to our cultural source, a visual and tactile thread that links us to what made us. And if you go deeper into the elemental composition of coins, you can travel back not thousands of years but billions, before there was an Earth and Sun, back to the explosions of massive stars, or supernovae, that created the gold, silver, copper, tin, zinc, and nickel that coins are made of, all the elements in fact with atomic weights heavier than iron. Not aluminum. Or aluminium to Brits who don't know how to spell right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted April 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Actually, you can be ignorant, dumb, lazy, and xenophobic, or any one or any combination of the above, and still collect ancient coins. You know that, right? Oh, and I left out crazy as a reason for not collecting ancients. You'd have to be crazy to be interested in coins and not have one ancient in your collection. Then again, I think everybody is crazy who doesn't find any appeal to coin collecting. I guess I'm crazy. I think for most people it just comes down to the fact that they are too far removed from ancient history to appreciate the coins. When you consider the long term effects that ancient coinage had on influencing even modern coinage it all comes full circle, and then you can appreciate ancient coins much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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