Drusus Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 It also could be that people have preferences in the coins they collect and ancients arent one of them...I like ancients, thats my main focus but I love almost every type of coins and as of late, I have been concentrating my efforts elsewhere. Certainly most areas of numismatics require one to read and learn. I have been collecting German Notgeld, certainly I wouldnt consider this an area for lazy, stupid people... I think its best just not to label people dumb, lazy, stupid, xenophobic when you just dont know them and why they do what they do, like maybe they would rather spend the time learning about other types of coins...to each his own though. Also, the poll is missing a few answers like 1. I collect them or 2. Its not an area of interest to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banivechi Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 At least here in Romania collecting ancient coins can be a source of troubles with police. The law says that ancient coins are supposed to be subject of national treasury, so, the collector must record his coins at the museum. I think the same laws are in Greece. Did you seen ancient Greek coins on ebay sold from Greece? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted April 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 I have seen them from Greece and Turkey. In fact I bought a Miletos 1/12th Stater from a seller listed in Germany, but the coin was shipped out from Turkey ~ Not legal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 yeah, On Forum there is a guy from Serbia who finds all kinds of great coins with his metal detector in (what a great thing) and posts them for us to see, but if he were found out he would be in trouble...I envy him for being able to just walk outside and find ancient coins around his house, but I think I prefer living where I am...no ancient coins underfoot though...lots of bottle caps. http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/ind...p?topic=29820.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted April 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 yeah, On Forum there is a guy from Serbia who finds all kinds of great coins with his metal detector in (what a great thing) and posts them for us to see, but if he were found out he would be in trouble...I envy him for being able to just walk outside and find ancient coins around his house, but I think I prefer living where I am...no ancient coins underfoot though...lots of bottle caps. http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/ind...p?topic=29820.0 I was reading an article somewhere about a river in Serbia where they are literally finding thousands of coins from the Roman era up to the present, apparently they are washing down stream and get into a depression in the river that traps them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 yeah, it seems they are everywhere there. This guy just walks out his front door and finds a few with a metal detector...or he will got out into farm land and find them...he finds some REAL NICE coins, one vespasian and hadrian he found were simpy outstanding. He finds fibulas, rings, clips, a statuette, and a bunch of coins from middle ages back to roman...He is hoping to find a horde. I cant help but feel a bit of envy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banivechi Posted April 19, 2007 Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 Romanian police search now 1500 gold KOSON coins and 7 or 8 Dacian gold bracelets (7 are already repatriated)... here when a treasure is found can be up to 20.000 pieces, ancient or medieval. Roman copper coins are usually for sale here at 1 euro/piece, but... you can have problems... Metal detectors are strictly forbidden, and EVERY old thing discovered in soil must be reported, even if it is on your own land. Partially I agree, because these are part of our history, which is far to be well known. There are some white pages in our history book, only 500 years during Dark Ages... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted April 19, 2007 Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 yeah...some guys sent him his metal detector This is his land, IMO he has a right to look for treasure on it. All we asked was that he post and show us what he finds...so many great coins he finds...He found a cloak pin with a personal message engraved in it as if it wasa gift...wonderfull stuff. I know he is breaking the law but the laws are unfair IMO. This guy would be more than willing to work WITH the government and heavy handed antagonistic archeologist and report everything he finds if he thought they wouldnt throw him in jail and take away the rewards of his work...instead they criminalize the very people who are interested and would aid them in finding these treasures... There is no doubt if he thought he could retain what he finds (and not be thrown in jail) he would be happy to record his finds and where he finds them and even loan the better examples out for study or put them on display (all collectors like to display)...instead they choose to bully...so they bully and like anyone, he avoids the bully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted April 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 I would argue that heavy handed means of regulating archeaeological finds make more people not report what they find. In Britain the Treasure Trove laws sound like they are heavy handed to Americans, but they really are progressive with the finder getting credit for the find and a percentage of the proceeds. This has permitted greater reporting of everything from minor finds to major news making finds. Compare this to Bulgaria where the government wants it all, and has driven people to not declare what they find and as a result they sell stuff off by smuggling it out of the country. No one knows where it came from etc. Bulgaria was featured in a very recent National Geographic article on archeaology there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted April 19, 2007 Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 I have worked with people from the historical museum here and its almost criminal the way they horde...all the way down to the nastiest late roman imperials...they will photo and record the coins then lock them away, pretty much never to be seen again....what do most collectors do if allowed to have these? They do the same thing but they also display them in full color photos with all known info about the coins on a webiste...I know every coin I have bought is on display for everyone to see and if they arent, its just that I havent gotten to it yet... I was shown a catalog of Ancinet coins for the museum with grainy B&W photos with info listed....none of the coins were deemed good enough to take up display space...instead of releasing them (and maybe making a few bucks) they horde them away. I have found that archeologists are very heavy handed and extreme. I understand why they want to protect historical treasures but they have to understand that there are GOOD collectors out there that could, in fact, help them out...if they decided to work WITH them...they could do a lot more good then driving them underground... If a collector (or even a profiteer) knew that by reporting the horde they would not only get credit for the find, they would get to keep most of it, and the ones they didnt get to keep they would be compensated for...a good persentage of those people would not complain about this deal...the rest would be true criminals IMO. The British system seemed pretty fair compared to many...I saw a show where they found a Roman horde (and settlement). When it came to the treasures it seemed the government came in and compensated the person who found it and whose land they dug up...allowed him to keep a good bit and paid him for the ones they deemed museum worthy...it all seemed very fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hussulo Posted April 19, 2007 Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 The British system seemed pretty fair compared to many...I saw a show where they found a Roman horde (and settlement). When it came to the treasures it seemed the government came in and compensated the person who found it and whose land they dug up...allowed him to keep a good bit and paid him for the ones they deemed museum worthy...it all seemed very fair. The British system is fair, you have to seek permission to metal detect land from a farmer/landowner which you usually agree to split any finds 50/50 with A written agreement with the landowner is advised. Then if anything is found you report it. The authorities take it away and if there are any museums interested in one or more of the finds they have to get them valued by an independent source. You are then paid the value of the finds they want to keep, which you split with the farmer/Landover as agreed. If they don't want any of the finds they are returned to you. The museums don't just buy anything and everything. I have heard of many detectorists getting to keep gold nobles etc. that they have found. Great link to UK Detector Finds Database with pictures and description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted April 19, 2007 Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 That seems very fair...if I lived in the UK I would be metal detecting every weekend. The only time I have ever MD with any real worthwhile finds was when I was staying with family in Rossville Ga., real close to Chatanooga Tn. They have a place called battlefield park and lookout mountain...while you are not allowed to metal detect there...the lands all around have Civil War area finds....I went with my uncle all the time to detect on private property and found all kinds of great things...he has a huge stash of coins, bullets, pins, buckles, and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlueke Posted April 28, 2007 Report Share Posted April 28, 2007 That seems very fair...if I lived in the UK I would be metal detecting every weekend. The only time I have ever MD with any real worthwhile finds was when I was staying with family in Rossville Ga., real close to Chatanooga Tn. They have a place called battlefield park and lookout mountain...while you are not allowed to metal detect there...the lands all around have Civil War area finds....I went with my uncle all the time to detect on private property and found all kinds of great things...he has a huge stash of coins, bullets, pins, buckles, and the like. Wayne Sayles, at the ACCG update in the Kenndy Room during the current Chicago International Con Fair touched on this as well. In fact the archeologist Roger Bland, father of the Portable Antiquities Scheme, will be presenting a talk on the subject at the ANS in New York this year. The ACCG is then sponsoring him to speak in Congress on the subject as well. Look for these upcoming announcements and the join the ACCG if you haven't done so yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlueke Posted April 28, 2007 Report Share Posted April 28, 2007 I have found that archeologists are very heavy handed and extreme. I understand why they want to protect historical treasures but they have to understand that there are GOOD collectors out there that could, in fact, help them out...if they decided to work WITH them...they could do a lot more good then driving them underground... This is the crux of the current problem with the CPAC and import restrictions. SOME archeologists think that ALL collecting is inherently wrong and are doing their best to limit and eventually ban collecting of all "cultural property" regardless of rarity. They fail to see the contributions collectors and museums have made over the past centuries. They also neglect the value of coins as art and of aesthetics in general. One of these intolerant archaeologists is now in charge of naming the members of the CPAC advisoray committe in the US, the group that can ban the import of any coin over 100 years old. Anyway enough preaching go to http://www.accg.us for more details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny 1989 Posted April 28, 2007 Report Share Posted April 28, 2007 Must take issue, Ætheling, being primarily a Celtic coin collector, as IMO the pinnacle of artistic beauty was attained by the ancient Celts, eg Now that is one fine coin, however I don't collect ancients at all, mainly due to fear of fakes, It must be much harder to tell a real coin from a fake coin with an ancient rather than a milled coin, which reminds me..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlueke Posted April 28, 2007 Report Share Posted April 28, 2007 Now that is one fine coin, however I don't collect ancients at all, mainly due to fear of fakes, It must be much harder to tell a real coin from a fake coin with an ancient rather than a milled coin, which reminds me..... I don't think its any harder. Plus you have to worry a lot less about overgrading than you do with modern coins. The key is to buy from reputable dealer all of whom will refund your purchase should a coin ever be discovered to be fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodies Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 hi, I can't find the vote option that I would choose, so I did not vote. I have been collecting ancient (Roman, Greek, Celt, Byzantine) coins for about 10 years now I never worried about any regulations. Also knowledge is no problem, because there are sources on-line for attribution (Wildwinds, CoinArchives) As for legal matters, I know a lot of detectorists in the Netherlands that never experience any problem with authorities and are willing to sell finds. Maybe it's different in the UK, but when a find is properly reported to the authorities with photograph and finding place, that's the end of the story. Of course, not all finds are legal, which is always a risk. But.. once a coin is digged up and cleaned, it is impossible to trace. Most Roman coins that are affordable are Eastern-European finds anyway. Constantine I (M.Br) RIC VII Thessalonica 101 R2 obv: Constantinus Magnus bust right, CONSTANTINVS AVG rev: in wreath VOT . XX, DN CONSTANTINI MAX AVG ---- TS gamma IIII See the mint ? It's TS gamma, Thessalonica. This is not a Western-European find. It cost me 24 euros. I don't worry about forgeries. For prices I can afford, it can hardly be faked. And this is my best Constantine ! I don't agree with the ugly-issue. How dare you This is one of my favorites, because I found it myself.. And.. let me show you what beauty a really affordable Roman coin can have.. delicate portrait of Alexander Severus. Instead of buying this coin I could have chosen to buy a pizza.. did'nt.. (all coins shown from http://www.muntenbodemvondsten.nl/lx ) Lx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Orc Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 I do like the Celtic coins and just wish I could afford to buy more LOL Romans are fun as are Greek & even a nice short or long cross is good to have but Celtic I just over them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodies Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 I do like the Celtic coins and just wish I could afford to buy more LOL Romans are fun as are Greek & even a nice short or long cross is good to have but Celtic I just over them Like this one ? Durotriges obv: Celtified portrait - rev: Grapes, - My most beautiful Celt. I bought that from a fellow collector (under 60.- gbp) and it's my only British Celt. On the mainland, we find these.. Leuci tribe obv: portrait of Apollo rev: swine Lx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted May 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 I really like those continental potins, they are not fancy, but I love the designs on them. Here is my only Celtic coin: Gallia Belgica ca 60BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Orc Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Yep just like them or these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesicus Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 The British system is fair, you have to seek permission to metal detect land from a farmer/landowner which you usually agree to split any finds 50/50 with A written agreement with the landowner is advised. Then if anything is found you report it. The authorities take it away and if there are any museums interested in one or more of the finds they have to get them valued by an independent source. You are then paid the value of the finds they want to keep, which you split with the farmer/Landover as agreed. If they don't want any of the finds they are returned to you. The museums don't just buy anything and everything. I have heard of many detectorists getting to keep gold nobles etc. that they have found. Great link to UK Detector Finds Database with pictures and description. References: http://www.finds.org.uk/ http://www.finds.org.uk/treasure/treasure_summary.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodies Posted May 28, 2007 Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 I really like those continental potins, they are not fancy, but I love the designs on them. Here is my only Celtic coin: Gallia Belgica ca 60BC Hi @scottishmoney, Beautiful indeed. This is my version of that coin: Gallia Belgica, the Remi. Cast Potin (4.13 gm, 12h, 21mm), ca. 100-60 BC. Scheers 191 I love it too.. the little barbarian running right, holding his spear.. The Latours-number is Remi LT 8124, the attribution to the Remi tribe is quite certain. In the southern Netherlands and Belgium these are found regularly.. and attributed on the forums.. Lx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedeadpoint Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 bump for the newbies. Great topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoneyeagles Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 I don't collect them because they look like dirt, and they just look kinda ugly.... Lots of fakes, and you can never be sure.... That is my opinion, but I know ancients, are widely collected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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