extant4cell Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 What would be the point of overstriking polushka (2.56 g) on old polushka (4.1 g)? I agree, it looks more like new kopeck (10.24 g) on denga (8.19 g). Denga was genuine, the kopeck is not. The only known kopecks' overstrikes are on 1 ore coins, like on this esteem coins: I see a few things wrong with this assumed 1 kopeck coin shown by Marsmike. One of the most obvious ones is the location of a spear, it always goes along the arm, not a torso... I for one, would be very excited if not for those signs of a counterfeiting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Sharp! When will you get it in hand? It arrived yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hard to find these in such grade! What did the one being replaced looked like? Here is my old one: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 That's quite an upgrade. Congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 That's quite an upgrade. Congrats! Thanks, IgorS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsmike Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi all, Thanks for your very interesting comments on the weird denga/kopek piece! I collect contemporary counterfeits, but don't have any of this era. So this becomes an interesting centerpiece of that collection. Still an ugly coin! -mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Apparently they are well known, there is a mentioning of one like yours in one of the articles: http://www.numismat.ru/articles.shtml?id=440 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsmike Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Dear extant4cell; Thanks! The coin is more interesting that I expected. -marsmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsmike Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Another recent acquisition for show and tell. Expensive, but attractive in hand. -marsmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsmike Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 The other side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted June 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 I'm going to wait for Sigi to weigh in on this 5 kopecks, but at the first glance isn't that the 1768-1769 eagle?! I would not expect to see it in 1774!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 This is the 1763 EM eagle, very rare for 1774 - Bitkin 623 (R2). The Wolmar catalog Jan.2015 edition quotes it VF $900, XF $3800 (for comparison: the normal 1774 is quoted there in VF $5 and in XF $38). The coin is honest looking and pretty attractive. Congratulations! The first one I remember having seen. Sigi . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted June 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Thanks for confirming, I was shocked as well. I don't think I've ever seen 1774 with the old eagle. Congrats to the new owner!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted June 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 A note on the 1763 M/M. IgorS could you share the full size picture you took of the eagle? I shared the link here: http://coins.su/forum/index.php?showtopic=164181&page=5 There does seem to be a ghost 'M' to the left of the eagle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 SL746595.JPGAnother recent acquisition for show and tell. Expensive, but attractive in hand. -marsmike Very nice coin! Congratulations! I counted some 4 other coins in here http://www.m-dv.ru/catalog/id,4268/prohod.html with yours being number 5. All discovered in Russia. Where did you find your coin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsmike Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 This coin was offered to me by a coin dealer who knew I was seriously collecting Russian copper. All I know is that my dealer friend said it came from another collector, and that the collector clearly knew what it was and that it was very rare. Sorry, but that's all the background I have. -mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Hi Mike, your profile doesn't tell me if you are in Russia or somewhere else, and if you don't want to disclose your location, it's perfectly fine. All I am interested is if your dealer inside or outside Russia? I just don't believe these coins were known outside Russia until this year (Markov), that's all. Yours may be a second one known. GM didn't list them in his catalog, so none to be found in his collection (unless he just didn't list them all)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 First time I find it mentioned is in Diakov (2003), described as "unpublished variant" (R4) "private collection". Diakov's picture shows the same dies as seen with Mike's coin, but the coins are not the same. Sigi . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Sigi, thank you for this additional information. I don't have Diakov's catalogs, but every time it's mentioned I am tempted more and more to buy some of them. And I come to understanding that great catalogs don't need advertising, their reputation is the best advertisement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Eugene, you are on the right track ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsmike Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Hi al, Pardon if this is general knowledge, I'm rather ignorant on the history of the coinage of this period. What is the conventional explanation for these die pairings? Are there any good speculations on why such coins exist? Why would these eagle dies be retrieved to make coins? The dies are not particularly attractive or special in any way that I can tell. It seems rather odd that they would be needed. Thanks, -mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted June 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Hi al, Pardon if this is general knowledge, I'm rather ignorant on the history of the coinage of this period. What is the conventional explanation for these die pairings? Are there any good speculations on why such coins exist? Why would these eagle dies be retrieved to make coins? The dies are not particularly attractive or special in any way that I can tell. It seems rather odd that they would be needed. Thanks, -mike My guess would be just the huge mintage volume for these coins. This mule was probably unintentional, just a necessity to keep the production running. A 1770 type die broke, an old die was pulled of the shelf to keep things going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 My guess would be just the huge mintage volume for these coins. This mule was probably unintentional, just a necessity to keep the production running. A 1770 type die broke, an old die was pulled of the shelf to keep things going. Yes, I also think that's why. Sigi . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seldom Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Russian coins are very interesting. I have one in my collection but I have no idea what it is. I'll take a picture of it the next days to add it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted June 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 1770 5 kopecks with a 1780's eagle?!!! How is this possible? http://www.ebay.com/itm/361320244728 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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