IgorS

A long time ago I borrowed it from ANA library. Then found my own copy at a "reasonable" price - I think I paid $150 or so.

That's what I was asking - how were these dies cut so closely? The process of it, in your opinion. Otherwise all of it is just a speculation, like the words of Fuchs about diemaker's mission. In any case - my question is hypothetical, no need to answer it. I recommend to all a great book by Denis R. Cooper - The Art and Craft of COINMAKING, A History of Minting Technology, By Spink and Son 1988. The guy used to be a Chief engineer at the Royal Mint. Many things will fall into place. Collector's talks and fantasies are often quite different from the actual die and coin making technology at the different times in history. I wish Armen to sell the coin as it deserves and for seller and buyer to be happy.

I will not pretend that I fully know or understand the history behind Constantin rouble, but I did read the related books. Seems in addition to Shubert/Reichel plain edge rouble there were some one-sided splashes in existence and not under lock and key as until 1879 were 3 original sets of dies and 5 coins. As well as the sixth fully produced coin was floating around (probably held by Kankrin and which later possibly appeared in Hamburger 1898 auction). There were also galvano-copies made from Schubert/Reichel coin, it seems. So how do you think these "novodel" dies would be made at the time to so closely resemble the original? George Champney did not demonstrate his patented technique of making dies from coins until 1876 (at SPB mint).

I always appreciate Eugene's enthusiasm in newly discovered areas of numismatics. I read the article. It seems very unlikely that during the reign of Nicholas I an attempt would be made to produce a novodel of Constantine rouble at SPB mint. Siberia is not a nice place and no one in their right mind would try to do such a thing. So I do not see how "it can be reasonably assumed that it was in fact struck in 1845 at St. Petersburg mint...". It would have a smell of..... treason. It always pays to revisit historical events in addition to technological. A new movie about Decembrists just came out - Союз Спасения (Union of Salvation). General Schubert introduced his plain edge Constantin rouble to the world only in 1857 (after death of Nicholas I) and not even in publication printed in Russian or in Russia.

Probably makes sense to try Sincona in Zurich. I think historically European auctions presented sammlung fertigung (or something like that) in their catalogs, if they felt the item deserved some consideration. The entire story needs to be presented to them and if they feel like it, possibly together with Igor Shiryakov of GIM, they could come up with an interesting truthful description which might get someone (hopefully more than one person) interested in the item.

Bob Julian's article I mentioned above describes 3 dies for 1760 rouble reverse die. One with wing change and 2 with tail changes added in.

There was a follow up article by Bob Julian on the specifically late 1760 changes to the reverse die of the rouble. Unfortunately that issue of the JRNS was never published, as JRNS went on "hiatus". Article mentions the changes to the right wing with an added notch - Ivanov most likely created a new hub for this part of the wing since original hub probably deteriorated Eugene I am curious who the expert is - is it Altair on SM?

Looks like good coins travel in groups: http://www.staraya-moneta.ru/forum/messages/forum1/topic222687/message2393269/#message2393269

Certainly one of the best. Congrats!

I hope you got it!

Sigi, are congratulations in order for the first coin in post one? 😉

Yes, nice coins! I still have 1791 E:M: in my collection (most of my Paul re-overstrikes are gone). Kept it because of the provenance (B. F. Brekke) and the color. One day I will make a better picture.

Have you gentlemen seen this auction of copper coins that too place past Saturday? https://bidspirit.com/ui/catalog/auction/4501/1?lang=en See lot 315 for a wonderful example of this coin type. https://bidspirit.com/ui/lotPage/source/catalog/auction/4501/lot/92065/5-копеек-1791-года-Е-М-Медь-49?lang=en Many more nice ones.

It is also referred to as medal turn.

I am assuming Sigi bought the coin at a price of a copy, which further identifies the community's thoughts on that coin. Last time I remember giveaways on Ebay was in 1999.

Yes, in deed. I also find the video interesting. It shows screw press at work. When one sees a picture of a screw press, it is hard to imagine how fast it operates. The video certainly gives it a better visual representation.

Interesting defect. Here is a demo on how the screw press operated:

Very possible. I do not have the coin anymore to tell. At the time I was searching for rare ones based on the edge types as mentioned in the classic catalogs. I give a lot of credit to you and other researchers taking it to the next level with identifying the mints.

Back in the day I had this one.

A very long time ago on a whim I've decided to put together a set of Elizabeth 5 kopeks (with and without MM). Somehow it took me about a month, including 1761 (just so happened). Looking back now I see the condition was very low, but I will be honest with you, I was very happy with my accomplishment at the time.

You are right, it is from my collection!

Very nice indeed! A few years back I sold most of my Paul re-overstrikes (kept the best ones by condition and provenance). Here is the example I had. The prices were stronger back then: https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=1096&category=22313&lot=1023798

Sigi, my congratulations as well. I did see the coin in the Kunker catalog, but did not look further, since I had one. What a provenance! I wonder where it was hiding for the past 100 or so years.

Not original. Original sells for millions of dollars.

Actually, these tokens are a separate area of collecting. They are not a form of money and were used strictly for accounting purposes related to peasants supplying coal to the steel and other metal mills. Here is a definition from Zander's numismatic dictionary: Coal Mine Token (угольные печатки). These were much used in the Urals in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. In early times, some were of birch bark and leather. Later all were made of metal. There are many publications on the topic.