constanius

Both the British Museum & The Victoria & Albert are going to amend their descriptions at their next updates.

Thanks Art. There is another Old World candidate for the "marigold", if it is in fact a marigold, that being the pot marigold. But it is 100% not a sunflower. We have the internet, search engines & so much information online, this makes it much easier to research & check facts etc than previous generations. So though I might point out an error I intend no criticism.

The medal pictured is not mine, shame about that. This is an earlier Gonzaga medal(than the one in my previous post http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php/topic/34819-holy-roman-empress-eleonora-gonzaga-circa-1657/ ) which it is claimed also shows the sunflower device. The problem is that the sunflower is native to N. America so it cannot be depicted on a medal produced before 1492! Obviously describing the flower on Pisanello's medal c.1447 as a sunflower is an anachronism, one that has been accepted & repeated until it became "fact", part of the corpus on renaissance medals. This poses the question as to what the original Gonzaga flower was. Marguerite de Valois(1553-1615) chose the marigold as her armorial device, because of the belief it followed the sun, and used the motto "I wished to follow him alone" in regard to her husband Henri IV. Whilst the embattled Charles the Ist of England(1600-1649) penned "The marigold obverves the sun, More than my subjects me have done" So in all likelihood the early Gonzaga floral device was the wild corn marigold(the cultivated marigold is also native to the New World), until the sunflower usurped it, probably c. 1600.

The Gonzaga/Mantua sunflower on a billon.

Thanks for the interesting post.

Just too awesome for words to describe, bravo!

Obv. Holy Roman Empress, Eleonora Gonzaga facing 3/4 left, hair in ringlets & bows, drop pearl earings, pearl necklace & wearing a widow's peak veil. ELEONORA R. I. G. H. B. R. A. A. P. M. & M. (Initials = Rom. Imp. Ger. Hun. Boh. Regina, Archducissa Austrice, Principissa Mantua & Montferat) Rev. Sunflower(Gonzaga & Mantua emblem) facing the anthropomorphic sun which scatters the clouds. SEQVOR( I follow) Cast bronze 43mm. I would date it circa 1657 as she is wearing the widow's peak veil. "The example of this medal in the collection of the Banca Agricola Mantovana was published in their ‘Monete e medaglie di Mantova e dei Gonzaga dal XII al XIX secolo’ (1996), where the Gonzaga use of the sunflower as an emblem is briefly discussed" (thanks due to Philip Attwood Keeper of Coins & Medals at the British Museum for this information) Born 1630, married Ferdinand III in 1651 and as his 3rd consort became Holy Roman Empress & Queen of the Germans 1651-1657. After Ferdinand's death in 1657 she was the Dowager Empress & retained her active role at court as she was on good terms with her stepson, Leopold I the new emperor. She was a patron of the arts, especially music &, among many other religous endevours, founded the religious Order of the Starry Cross in 1668 & served as its Grand Mistress till her death in 1686.

I mainly buy from eBay, plus a couple of online dealers & I browse antique stores as well.

From http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/122536-heres-intresting-old-one.html perhaps they made some sans date? "The date is 1752, and for those with poor eyesight the lettering around the edge (face) reads: FRANC.D.G.REG A.GER.IER.REX the back reads: TU DOMINE SPES MEA.1752 Oh dear...!! It seems as though my fortune is NOT about to be made with the sale of this coin. I am very sad and unhappy to inform you all that it's identity is now solved. It was, apparently, a gimmick - put out by Readers Digest about 1990." http://coinquest.com/cgi-bin/cq/coins?main_coin=9495 mentions the undated ones & shows a picture of the genuine coin next to a copy.

Allen lists this as SK-B010 AEG RR, but in the leather case RRRR. so a very nice acquisition

Beautiful medal Clive & being from your old school I can see that you had no choice but to buy it. As there seem to be less of the WM, compared to the bronze ones, could they have been given to the proctors? Mind they could still have been named. Whatever, a great piece

No trout about it, your r-eel whale of a tail has left me f-eeling wobbegong.

Apparently then the company sank without trace, except for Ian's jeton, despite NEC MARIS IRA MANET( from Ovid's Metamorphoses) being Latin for The anger of the sea subsides.

When you are retired what else is there to do but have fun!

Had a closer look at your pics, I can see IOIE on the reverse & OVRN on the obverse so it is between 1481 or 1482, as1482 mentions 3 human faces, 1481 notes only one, ergo your Tournai jeton should be Rouyer#1482 unfortunately cannot find a picture.

Great coin, parts of S F E are just visible between G R O S.

It is a Tournai Jeton. It is probably ones of these, 3 circles human faces etc, I can make out AVE IIIARIA on yours, by comparing your jeton's inscription with Rouyers you might be able to identify which one it is.

Obv: FRlDERlCH PFALTZGRAVE BEY RHEIN Bust right, in armor. Under the bust a branch, on truncation: CDLC for Claude de la Cloche(1552-C.1630) Rev: 3 Palatine heraldic shields with helm crested with a lion, Inscription: DES H Ro R ERTZTR VND CHVRF HERTZ IN BEYERN 15 96 Silver, 40mm x 34mm, 14gms. The old coat of arms of the House of Hohenstaufen, the single lion, became the coat of arms of the palatinate. By marriage, the Palatinate's arms also became quartered with those of Welf and later Wittelsbach. The arms of Bavaria were also used with reference to the elector's holdings in Bavaria. This was extended to quartering of the lion and the Bavarian Arms. The orb represented their position as Arch-Steward of the Holy Roman Empire. The description below the medal is from an 1927 auction catalog of Leo Hamburger, Frankfurt. My cracked silver medal measures 40mm x 34mm, 14gms the same type as #179, from above, but slightly larger & heavier. The original loop is missing & it was either holed to wear on a chain again, or affixed to a house beam as a good luck charm etc, a bit battered but a charming piece with everything clearly visible. We should all look so good after 400+ years. Medals of sovereigns mounted in gold, called Gnadenpfennige(grace pennies) in German, were traditionally presented by the rulers as a token of their appreciation and trust. They appeared in the 1560s in Tyrol and Bavaria, and spread very quickly to all the German kingdoms. The fashion for them faded in the first quarter of the 17th century. They were worn by both men and women on long gold chains. Frederick IV, Elector Palatine of the Rhine (in German, Kurfürst Friedrich IV. von der Pfalz) (March 5, 1574 September 19, 1610) was a Calvinist & became the leader of the Protestant military alliance known as the Protestant Union in 1608.

To the Romans Scotland was Caledonia not part of Britannia, Roman Britain was only England & Wales(Wales they conquered and they also slaughtered the Druids in their sanctuary on Anglesey), whilst it is true the Early Emperors retained the fiction of a republic their holding of both pontifex maximus & imperium maximus plus being princeps for life meant in reality that they were monarchs, a rose by another name is still a rose. Britain is England & Wales, Great Britain is Britain & Scotland which was formed in 1707, The UK was Great Britain & Ireland which was formed in 1801. By J.G.Hancock for P.Kempson,The Creation of the United Kingdoms of Great Britain and Ireland Jan Ist 1801. Also the new century as seen by Father Time receiving a new Hour-Glass.39mm Bronze BHM#526

Nice medal, but it is the efforts by the company which makes this an enjoyable read. Thanks

I have brought 100's of medals/tokens etc from all around the globe, using eBay, over many years & never had a problem. My Wife buys & sells all over the world too using eBay & has had the odd problem but it has always been resolved. So for me, as a collector of old eclectic exonumia, eBay is a happy hunting ground. I do appreciate the problems that sellers have with problem buyers, hence the ridiculous postal charges for insured & tracked shipping for an inexpensive medal, but most sellers have shipped to me uninsured at my risk(even if they state under no circumstances they will) as I give them a promise not to make any claim, even in the event of total loss, which eBay & PayPal can see.

A great token which preserves so much history, both architectural & social. The weight of the loaf intrigued me, as it was clear from your picture that there was a 6 lb weight, a 1/2 pound weight plus a much smaller weight. To us, in our affluent times, the weight and cost of a loaf of bread is not that important, but bread was the staff of life back then. In fact industrialization had made it even more important as people were moved from the small farming communities into larger & larger towns & cities and had less recourse to other food supplies. Well I found this, which explains the extra weight, from a 1795 house of commons report re a 1758 Act. The household bread was a brown loaf, less refined than the wheaten, hence the difference in weight for the 2 types of shilling loaves.

Theordore van Berckel was working on another new medal of, and for, the Emperor Joseph II when the Brabant Revolution & its subsequent proclamation of independence in 1790 from Austria occurred. He carried on working as the General Engraver of the Brussel's Mint but now he produced coins for the short-lived regime, when it collapsed he again retained his post under the new Emperor Leopold II, who had succeeded because Joseph II had died. Ergo that medal he was engraving of Joseph was never finished but a lead trial strike exists. Imagine my surprise when I found this "unknown medal", which I believe, could be a tin splash(37/38mm) of the above at an early stage in the engraving, before the clothes were added, head broadened at the rear, etc. Link http://www.theodoorvanberckel.nl/biography.htm to the Theodore Van Berckle Biography Web Site, the source of the above picture. Note the 2 laurel berries positions & the way the laurel crown is raised above the hair, I cannot find another medal or coin of Joseph II by Berckel the same, that might just be my failure.......but at least it does not appear to be a splash from a finished medal, or coin if the design was later reduced in size, but from one in the development stage.

Battyʾs Catalogue of the Copper Coinage of Great Britain, Ireland ..., Volume I. By D. T. Batty Provincial coins farthing size, issuer or locality not known, page 701. 2530 O.—The Royal Arms surmounted with a Crown between Laurel Branches; Rose,Thistle, and Shamrock below; "Britain. A. D MDCCCLXXIX." R.—Blank. Brass. 2531 As last. Cast.

Battyʾs Catalogue of the Copper Coinage of Great Britain, Ireland ..., Volume I. By D. T. Batty Provincial coins farthing size, issuer or locality not known, page 701. 2530 O.—The Royal Arms surmounted with a Crown between Laurel Branches; Rose,Thistle, and Shamrock below; "Britain. A. D MDCCCLXXIX." R.—Blank. Brass. 2531 As last. Cast.