Art Posted January 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 I bet that's a "K", Art. Check the seal at the obverse, what's the word in the bottom of the seal? Tried that still looked like an R to me. But I bet it's really a K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabbs Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Tried that still looked like an R to me. But I bet it's really a K. Well, the seal has uppercase "Latin" characters only - including a K. Köln is what you call Cologne in English. The Lord Mayor whose signature you can see on the note is a famous one, by the way: Konrad Adenauer, who later became the very first Chancellor (chief of government) of the Federal Republic of Germany. The guy in the funny uniform is possiby a Roter Funke, nowadays (and then) primarily a Karneval organization. http://www.rote-funken.de/ The building in the background could be the old City Hall, but I am not sure about that. Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Thanks to all. I've updated my notgeld photos section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabethann Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 I have about 45 pieces of notgeld, how do you tell if they are german or austrian? I know a bit of the background behind them, but my german is a BIT rusty! Austria uses hellers, right? Germany doesn't? Someone help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabbs Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Austria uses hellers, right? Germany doesn't? Right. On German Notgeld (notes or coins) from the early1920s you would see "Mark" and "Pfennig"; for Austrian pieces of that time it would be "Krone(n)" and "Heller". For details ... post pix. Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiffibunny Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 A good way to tell if it's Austrian is they are Hellers. German ones are Pfennigs and Marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabethann Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Thank you for the help! I think I am going to have to try to find a catalog for those or something. Any suggestions about the best way for a newbie to try to ID that stuff? I love a good puzzle! lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 I too have had a few lost evenings in trying to decipher the darned notes. My latest attempt was at a Low German Dictionary: http://www.mennolink.org/doc/lg/ but it was of no use with the notes I was working with. I have tried online translations in Low German, High German, Dutch, but have not had a good success rate with those from Germany. The Austrian ones were simpler, as I guess they had fewer dialects, but I really don't know. One guess I have is that as they were printed locally, then the dialects were likely containing colloquialisms (sp?) and those may not be in the dictionaries. I used to work with a guy from Taiwan and English was his 4th language, adn he would get stumped on some terms a lot - they just made no sense the first time he heard them. Imagine trying to look up Ya'll, howdy-do!, or "I gotta' get me a mess o' them greens" in a dictionary - - I think that's where some of them are lacking. My latest purchases were surprising as they had a company name on them that I thought was something else.... I would never have found out if I hadn't just plain typed it into google and had it come up - Still in business! I think I'm on year 2 with "Wat Mutt, Dat Mutt" - My guess is that it is something like 'what must be done will be done', but I have no real idea. It is also very hard to read the older german script in some of them. I was discussing this with a friend of mine whose mother is from Germany, and he said that she never learned the old script, but that his grandmother can read it with ease. I might take him up on an offer to have him get her to try her hand at some of my more difficult ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trantor_3 Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 I think I'm on year 2 with "Wat Mutt, Dat Mutt" - My guess is that it is something like 'what must be done will be done', but I have no real idea. Well, that's pretty much what it means. It's a german dialect, that comes close to Dutch. In Dutch, it would say: "wat moet, dat moet" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabbs Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 It is also very hard to read the older german script in some of them. The old printed types (Schwabacher, Fraktur) are not that difficult to read, I think, except for a few characters that are either unknown in English or just look weird - see the capital S and K in the note from Cologne that Art posted. What is kind of tough are the "Gothic" (Kurrent, Sütterlin) handwriting styles used until the early 1940s ... Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 It's all German to me!!!!! I can't read any of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sisu Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 The old printed types (Schwabacher, Fraktur) are not that difficult to read, I think, except for a few characters that are either unknown in English or just look weird - see the capital S and K in the note from Cologne that Art posted. ... Or the "S" that looks like a "G". Look at the following candy box. Despite what you may see, it reads Sisu. That "G" is an "S" and that "f" is an "s". Sisu candy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabbs Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Or the "S" that looks like a "G". Yep, the same S as in "Stadt" in the (now gone) note above ... Kind of odd, by the way, that the nazi government continued to use Fraktur on the coins even after it had officially been branded "Jewish" by them. Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Yep, the same S as in "Stadt" in the (now gone) note above ... Kind of odd, by the way, that the nazi government continued to use Fraktur on the coins even after it had officially been branded "Jewish" by them. Christian Note is back. I had to move it to my Notgeld folder and that changes the address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabbs Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Thanks, Art. See how the capital S in "Stadt" (on your note) and in "Sisu" (on the candy box) looks like a "G"? About as confusing as the K looking like an R. Sure, if one sees an uppercase G right next to an uppercase S, it is relatively easy to tell the difference. But I assume it's a little more difficult anyway without knowing the language and thus the possible context ... Don't have any notgeld bills myself, but I have a post card with a note from Cologne. (Lived there for a couple of years.) Face value "Hundert Billionen Mark". Which in US English would be 100,000 billion marks. Whew. Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trantor_3 Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 I've got a couple of stamps in the hundred thousand Mark range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 I have a few more that I'd like some help with. Thanks in advance to all of you. Here's the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Here's the second. Again, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabbs Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Both are from Austria, but the first one seems to be a donation receipt rather than Notgeld. It was issued by an organization that wanted Austria to be a part of Germany - an idea which after the lost WW1 was kind of popular at least in some parts of Austria. The obverse shows Germany (which according to these people would include Austria) as a boat, and a poem written by Emmanuel Geibel: "Wer da fährt nach großem Ziel, lern' am Steuer ruhig sitzen, unbekümmert, wenn am Kiel Lob und Tadel hochauf spritzen." Which basically means that, if you have a major goal, pursue it and stay calm no matter whether you are praised or criticized. To be continued ... Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabbs Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 The second one is a "cash voucher" from Seekirchen; the reverse actually says that it was issued to fight the lack of small change. The town issues vouchers up to a limit of 40,000 crowns which will, at the end of the year (1920), be exchanged into legal tender cash. The issue of these voucher is covered or backed; don't know the correct English terms but it means that the financial basis of these vouchers is solid ... Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Thanks Christian that's a big help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted May 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Well gang, I've scanned some more notgeld and will post some here for help with ID and information. Thanks in advance. Updated -- Thanks to T_3 for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trantor_3 Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Obverse Kassenschein über Dreißig Heller Marktgemeinde Telfs Giltig bis 31. Jänner 1921 Der Bürgermeister: Visebürgerm.: Kassier: Reverse 7. Auflage Wagner Innsbruck Cash note for thirty heller Market town Telfs Valid until 31st of January 1921 The Mayor: Deputy Mayor: Cashier: 7th edition Wagner Innsbruck Wagner Innsbruck seems to me the printer of the note. They could be this company On the site of Telfs, click "virt. Rundgang" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted May 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Thank you for the information. That's a beautiful town and the mountains in the distance are magnificent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted May 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Can anyone tell me anything about this note. I believe it's from a town in Austria called Stein. I may be misreading though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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