jtryka Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 So I was reading in Coin World yesterday (it didn't arrive on Saturday like usual so I had to wait till yesterday due to the holiday) about the 1974 Aluminum Cent Pattern that had been graded by ICG as AU-58, which was believable given the photos and the fact that is was handled many times by a non-collector over 30+ years. So apparently, PCGS has now graded it MS-62! Two areas for discussion, first, if PCGS is supposed to be more "conservative" and "accurate" than lowly second-tier ICG, why the 4-point upgrade? Especially since the ICG graders were reportedly unanimous in their assessment as an AU-58? Second, who cares? It's the only one known in private hands, and may still be confiscated, does it really matter what the third party grade is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 I don't think the grade on this coin matters worth a hoot. What does matter is that the discrepency between the original grade and the PCGS grade is so broad. A point or two would be well within the range of "opinion". I find it interesting that the coin's story includes it being dropped on the ground an left for junk by the original owner -- ie. UNC? Picked up and carried around in the pockets of a policeman for some period of time -- UNC? Nah! AU at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostDutchman Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 I see this sometimes on high dollar coins....for some reason they receive grades that just don't make sense....I don't know if it is politics or something else.....but It DOES happen more then you think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 50cents Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Market Grading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostDutchman Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 and once it is in those PCGS holders it is freely passed as correct....which is a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhawk Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Much like the 1933 $20.00 gold piece...I believe that it was graded MS65 by PCGS. It looked pretty dinged up for that grade to me when the close-up photos were shown, but I don't know much about how gold is graded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtryka Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Much like the 1933 $20.00 gold piece...I believe that it was graded MS65 by PCGS. It looked pretty dinged up for that grade to me when the close-up photos were shown, but I don't know much about how gold is graded. The 33 Saint has not been graded and slabbed by any third party service as far as I know. PCGS offered their opinion for the media that it was an MS-65, and I think ICG concurred. I have not seen the coin in person, but from the photos I thought it was a 64 at best, and they added a point for rarity I suppose. This seems to happen a lot with Saints that are rarer dates. But like this coin, who cares what the grade is on the only 33 Saint that is legal to own? Of course that may become an issue if the group of 10 are ever allowed to come on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bustchaser Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 That is the difference between actually grading the coin (IGC) and pricing the coin(which PCGS as well as most other TGP's call market grading) In the opinion of the graders a coin which would sell for XX money should be slabbed at that number regardless of what it technically grades. One sees this most often with high AU coins that get put into MS holders because of eye appeal. ie This AU coin looks better than the average MS-63 so we have to call it at least that. The fact that it has wear and is therfore not a mint state coin is irrelevant. My 1830 half dollar which won an earlier PCI competition is a good example of this. (Although it was bought in a NGC slab rather than PCGS) As for the coin in question, it is the only one available. How does one go about deciding that it was worth MS money rather than AU money? Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dockwalliper Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Adding a point for rarity ? Dosen't seem to make any sence at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stujoe Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 As for the coin in question, it is the only one available. How does one go about deciding that it was worth MS money rather than AU money? Jim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Great minds think alike. I posted something similar in another forum when this topic came up. How can you market grade a coin that is the market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stujoe Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Market Grading <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Market Grading - He who controls the grades, controls the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bustchaser Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Market Grading - He who controls the grades, controls the market. I like that...I may have to steal and use it during my next market grading rant on another forum (which shall of course remain nameless.) Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stujoe Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 I like that...I may have to steal and use it during my next market grading rant on another forum (which shall of course remain nameless.) Jim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDJMSP Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Most folks know my thoughts on PCGS so I won't comment. But it's not the only one known. There was another turned up at a coin show back east a couple years ago - it was not for sale. It made the rounds, everyone who examined it declared it genuine. The PCGS gang had to get out bibs and put them on they were salivating so heavily over thoughts of grading it. But the owner was skittish, understandably so, about possible confiscation if it was publicized due to being graded. So just like the '33 Saints - these coins are out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 50cents Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Market Grading - He who controls the grades, controls the market. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conder101 Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 < But like this coin, who cares what the grade is on the only 33 Saint that is legal to own? Of course that may become an issue if the group of 10 are ever allowed to come on the market. > Especially since from reports from those who have had a chance to see the other 10 several of them are better than the 7 million dollar coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Is this thing really legal to own? I am kind of surprised the mint thugs didn't come along like they did with the 10 $20's from 1933. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtryka Posted October 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Is this thing really legal to own? I am kind of surprised the mint thugs didn't come along like they did with the 10 $20's from 1933. The mint has no power to confiscate coins, the only reason they have the 10 33 Saints was because they were turned over to the mint for authentication. It is up to the Secret Service to confiscate these coins, but so far they've done nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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