An interesting variety

[gpnyc]

I picked this coin up at the September Long Beach auction. IMO, a nice looking coin in its own right but if you look above Liberty's head, you will see a mysterious "E" counterstamp.

 

LINKY

 

From the Heritage lot description:

 

"Over the decades a number of theories have been offered to explain the "E" and "L" counterstamps known on 1815 and 1825 Capped Bust quarters. Most of the coins that have these counterstamp coins are high grade, usually extremely fine to about uncirculated. Some show slight deformation on the reverse from the counterstamp, others do not, as seen on this coin. For many years it has been asserted that these were counterstamped in the actual mint die. However, this theory fails to account for the different die states seen on the 1815 quarters showing the counterstamps, and the ten year hiatus until the 1825 coins were counterstamped.

 

Many of these coins first appeared in the 1960s in the Youngstown, Ohio and Southern Pennsylvania area, which brings to mind the Economite Hoard, or perhaps a similar hoard. No research has yet produced any definitive proof as to why these quarters were counterstamped. Population studies have shown there to be an approximately equal number of each date and letter of the four possible combinations."

[syzygy]

Dunno about the counterstamp, but as for the coin...

 

BEE-U-TEE-FUL!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(also, I don't remember ever seeing an MS55 grade - should that be 65?)

[Tiffibunny]

Dunno about the counterstamp, but as for the coin...

 

BEE-U-TEE-FUL!

(also, I don't remember ever seeing an MS55 grade - should that be 65?)

 

 

Exactly.

[gxseries]

Here is something that I will add, even though I know NOTHING about US coins. Hopefully that might help to spark some clues.

 

In the past during the Japanese occupation, Korean coins were heavily reformed and from the hole spaded coin design, which originated from China to proper circular machine made coins. That is when modern Korean coins started to take shape. Of course, their designs strongly correlated to their Japanese counterparts and some coins did come from the Osaka mint.

 

Appearently, some Korean coins which popped out from the middle of nowhere found quite recently has a horrible countermark of "S", probably referring to the initial of the Osaka mint. (Sorry, I don't have a picture of it at the moment ) These coins are usually ridiciously UNC, and it seems that these coins were not struck in Korea but most probably back in Japan where such high graded coins were probably striked but kept as a record.

 

So back to the story, I really wonder if this is part of the original mint's idea of countermarking such coins. It could be some other mints, or possibly foreign mints that struck these coins and coins were shipped to that area, which wasn't distributed, hence leaving them to be such high graded.

[gpnyc]

(also, I don't remember ever seeing an MS55 grade - should that be 65?)

 

The coin is an AU-55. The MS is just the way the NGC registry sets display the grade. I have no idea why but I can't override it.

[syzygy]

I have seen so few of these in that condition I don't mind making the mistake

[bustchaser]

From the Heritage lot description:

 

"Over the decades a number of theories have been offered to explain the "E" and "L" counterstamps known on 1815 and 1825 Capped Bust quarters. Most of the coins that have these counterstamp coins are high grade, usually extremely fine to about uncirculated. Some show slight deformation on the reverse from the counterstamp, others do not, as seen on this coin. For many years it has been asserted that these were counterstamped in the actual mint die. However, this theory fails to account for the different die states seen on the 1815 quarters showing the counterstamps, and the ten year hiatus until the 1825 coins were counterstamped.

 

Many of these coins first appeared in the 1960s in the Youngstown, Ohio and Southern Pennsylvania area, which brings to mind the Economite Hoard, or perhaps a similar hoard. No research has yet produced any definitive proof as to why these quarters were counterstamped. Population studies have shown there to be an approximately equal number of each date and letter of the four possible combinations."

 

The best (and currently most accepted) theory about these counterstamped quarters does indeed concern the Economite Hoard. In the late 1820's a split occurred between different members of the utopian society of New Philadelphia--the founders who favored no change in their society and others led by newcomer Count Leon pulling for societial reforms. It is currently thought that several quarters were stamped either with E (for Economite) or L (for Leon) and used as counters in an election to determine the future of the commune.

 

After losing in 1832 the followers of Count Leon split off and formed the commune of Harmony.

 

Jim

[Conder101]

The reason for the MS is probably because hey are using it as a designation for business strike as apposed to Proof strike. Both NGC and PCGS use MS internally to mean business striking as can be seen on coins tha get bodybagged. No mater how much wear is on the coin the bodybag label will say MS.

 

This also goes back to the mid-seventies when ANA was kicking around the idea of writin the grading guide. In early drafts it was thought that all business strikes would be graded MS-XX and Proof would be PF-XX. The numbers after the designator would indicate the grade and there would be no need for adjectives. It was also ought that the use of the adjective which gave the grade, and the numbers which also indicated he grade was a bit redundant.

[Scottishmoney]

Gees, my mouth watered when I looked at your coin overview, lovely stuff. Congratulations on acquiring such nice material.

[Art]

It is beautiful. Hope you enjoy it.