TreasureGirl Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Okay, having doubts about my major, and since I have such a passion for coinage, I thought, well, why not do something with coins? So, I guess what I'm asking is, what kind of careers are there in coins/currency out there, short of becoming a dealer (I failed Business)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan769 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Work as a grader or work for one of the big auction houses as a cataloger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustin43160 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 yea u can undergrade coins and buy them and regrade them for more money!!! :joke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDJMSP Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Okay, having doubts about my major, and since I have such a passion for coinage, I thought, well, why not do something with coins? So, I guess what I'm asking is, what kind of careers are there in coins/currency out there, short of becoming a dealer (I failed Business)? I would first ask you why you failed business ? The reason for that could play a large part in your future options. That being said, if you chose to do so you could pursue a degree in numismatics up to and including a PhD. The level of your degree would naturally have an impact on your chosen career - higher the degree the more options you have. You could be a curator for a museum, you could become a professor and teac numismatics to others. The major auction houses all offer several possibilities, cataloger & researcher, consignments, sales etc. The major grading companies also offer several positions like authenticator and grader. You could even become an author in your own right and not work for anybody. Now as for some incentive - people who are really good make well over 6 figure incomes. A top grader can make in excess of $250,000 a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreasureGirl Posted June 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Well, I technically dropped business for choir and never gave it a second chance. What classes exactly are included in a numismatics major? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just carl Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 For one thing you should go back and take more buisness type courses. A few courses in accounting would for sure be bennificial. Typing, buisness administration are also good courses to take. One thing you should look into is a course called Industrial Psychology and Public Speaking. These types of course could prepare you for any buisness you may venture into in the field of Numismatics. You may want to look into coin stores or hobby stores that need an assistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 You could look to work in a mint... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostDutchman Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Being completely honest. The major auction houses usually look for people on the show circuit when they have a void to fill which isn't very often. Your best bet would be to get on as an assistant for a dealer. I have seen many young people doing this job and last year was blown away by a 16 year old girl at the F.U.N. show working for a dealer. She was a very knowledgeable Y.N. and did a great job! Your other option could be a local coin shop. Im going to be very honest with you and this should not dissuade you. Jobs in the coin industry are not easy to get. They look for people who are very knowledgeable about their coins. My best advice... learn learn learn... if you want a job in the industry... your going to need to impress someone with your knowledge some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowly but surely Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 I don't know much, but if you're looking for ways to tailor your current college experience to better prepare for a numismatic career, I imagine loading up a few Greek and Roman history classes wouldn't hurt. Even if you're don't like ancient coinage and wouldn't want to work in that area, it is still always at least a little helpful to know something about the past. So much of our culture, coinage included, comes to us from the Classical cultures. (but, I may be biased, I got my degree in history and loved it!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dockwalliper Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Heritage runs a "Coin grader wanted" ad every week in the NN. The ANA has grading classes. Try that and read,read,read. As for writing, theres some info here at CP thats helpful. http://www.coinpeople.com/Numismatic-Onlin...Forum-f220.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rittenhouse Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Other possible options are customer service, marketing, independent author/consultant. Whatever avenue you choose a degree in business, history or marketing will help. Getting known by major dealers is a must. However, don't expect to make much. Several friends are in numismatics and unless you happen to be one of the top graders or catalogers I think it's a very tough way to make a living. Several advanced catalogers & senior numismatists I know are making less than 50K. I've been an independent author for some years. The pay ain't great - couple hundred an article - just a decent hobby sideline to offset expenses. And it's a great way to get noticed if you want to work in the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreasureGirl Posted June 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Well, I was thinking about talking to the ONE local coin dealer here, but I have never seen more than one other person besides myself at the store at once. Also, the last time I went it seemed like most of his things were put away and I'm wondering if he's going to sell the place, which might not be a bad idea for him if he's just been in the hospital for almost two months. As for business and accounting classes, why not? I'll see what all is available in the next semesters. Regarding history classes... we'll see how many specific classes are available. The university I attend is changing from UMR to Missouri University of Science and Technology and so has essentially dealt any liberal arts programs a death blow (I hate chancellors who want to make names for themselves), and I'm wondering what all is available in History past Western Civ I and II and American History I and II. No doubt Greek and Roman classes would be interesting, though. Drusus, what exactly do you mean by working in a mint; like on the actual floor where the coins are stamped? I'm not very familiar with the different jobs at the mint besides what the History channel will show me. The other problem, I've realized, is that here in East Jesus there are a grand total of 10 numismatics books, 5 of which are Red and Blue books (these are totaled from both. Gonna have a lot of trouble loading up on info that way. Thanks for all your input, I'm getting really excited about this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rittenhouse Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Drusus, what exactly do you mean by working in a mint; like on the actual floor where the coins are stamped? I'm not very familiar with the different jobs at the mint besides what the History channel will show me. That's what he means. The mints are nothing more than manufacturing plants - die stamping industry. Employment would range from plant manager, foreman, quality control, engravers, die sinkers, equipment maintenance, worker, etc. Also customer service reps and general office, etc. For example, an aquaintance is (or was, lost track of him) the plant metallurgist at the Philly mint. Best shot is probably a mechanical engineering degree but the jobs are thin. The US Mint is gov't service so you may need to take the civil service exam and then stand in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Thats what I meant...working at a mint where they actually make coins...not just the US mint but there are a large number of independent minting outfits that do everything from tokens to fantasy coins... There is a guy who runs a small mint by the name of Tom Maringer...he makes and sells fantasy coins of high caliber...maybe you could end up doing something like that... http://www.shirepost.com/ ^^ link to his mint To me it is fascinating and I now wish I had gone in that direction. If there was anything relating to numismatics that I would love to be a part of as a profession it would be minting (all aspects including engraving) of coins....hands on...the person who produces what we collect. I just don't like people trying to grab and extra buck out of me and my hobby so when someone tells me they want to make a living off coins I think... just another person trying to make a living off the coins'add a few more bucks to the price'...To me it is much better to be in the business of producing something then in the business of eeking out a little bit more money out of collectors...there is something to be said for dealers, people who sell collecting supplies, people who are recognized masters in the study of a field of numismatics (like David Sears) but if you collect for 20 years...you are pretty much and expert in what you collect...even a writer (though there are so many people writing and so few to read or care) or teaching? But just dont become a third party grader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rittenhouse Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Thats what I meant...working at a mint where they actually make coins...not just the US mint but there are a large number of independent minting outfits that do everything from tokens to fantasy coins... There is a guy who runs a small mint by the name of Tom Maringer...he makes and sells fantasy coins of high caliber...maybe you could end up doing something like that... To me it is fascinating and I now wish I had gone in that direction. If there was anything relating to numismatics that I would love to be a part of as a profession it would be minting (all aspects including engraving) of coins....hands on...the person who produces what we collect. I just don't like people trying to grab and extra buck out of me and my hobby so when someone tells me they want to make a living off coins I think... just another person trying to make a living off the coins'add a few more bucks to the price'...To me it is much better to be in the business of producing something then in the business of eeking out a little bit more money out of collectors...there is something to be said for dealers, people who sell collecting supplies, people who are recognized masters in the study of a field of numismatics (like David Sears) but if you collect for 20 years...you are pretty much and expert in what you collect...even a writer (though there are so many people writing and so few to read or care) or teaching? But just dont become a third party grader Gotta disagree w/ you. How is someone who decides to try his or her hand at dealing (even part-time) "grabbing an extra buck out of you and your hobby"? That person is taking a risk. Most small timers go bust; they lose money. Those who make it are certainly performing a service by providing collectors with product and they deserve to at least eat. Maybe they're small fry buying coins at large shows and retailing at local shows, but that's a service to the collector who can't attend larger shows because of geographics or time. The private mint guys are much more in line with your statement than anyone who trys dealing. They produce items of dubious value. Yeah, perhaps they look neat at the time but the long-term collecting value is nil. Look what happened when the Gallery Mint went bust or the when the "silver art bars" went bust - the value of that stuff plummeted like the proverbial rock. Private stuff typically does this and ends up with token dealers at a fraction of issue price. But if that's what some want to spend their money on, it's a free country and no one was holding a gun to their heads. As far as writing, there's more publications and books than ever before. Someone is buying so presumably they can also read. Also, merely collecting for a period of time does not make one an "expert". Most collectors cannot grade, even fewer can purchase appropriately and even fewer than that make a significant contribution to the knowledge base. Lastly, while I dislike what the TPGs are doing with constantly loosening the grading so folks will resubmit coins to get the latest upgrade, the graders do perform a service to the vast majority who simply cannot grade. Again, if you don't like what they're doing, stop buying. The TPGs are only doing what customers demand. Refuse to lay your money down and it will stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostDutchman Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 for any hobby to succeed you need people who are able to provide what people are looking to collect. Dealers are necessary. Maybe a necessary evil if you want to look at it that way. I don't... but some people might... I have to agree with what rittenhouse said. The private mint stuff is neat... but honestly its only worth the medal it is struck on... I personally scrap it when I get it because there is simply no market. I am intrigued by the processes that go into minting our coins and i will always spend a few hours at the F.U.N. show talking with the people who set up the private mint operations. They are great teachers and always willing to talk about what they do. The TPG's are out to make money first and provide a service second... how do you think that the big ones can pay their graders 6 figure incomes? But in some cases a coin being in a slab can make or break the sale of the coin. Once again in my eyes a necessary evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Oh, I dont buy into the third party grading...no problem there...collectors existed for quite some time without them, and will do so for a long time to come. As for dealers of coins...without doubt they are needed and if a person wants to try his/her hand at this...no problem...I tend to like the idea of people doing it out of the love of the hobby and arent trying to make a living off the coins...once selling a coin becomes a matter of 'I need to eat' is when coins are bought far below to eek all the profit one can as they sell for the highest price they can its just a commodity to them...and then add in the middle men, the flippers and whatever they add because they sent it to a third party grading service...now its an investment and they wouldn't want it any other way... So yeah, I am cheap and disdain anything that will raise the price because someone 'wanted to make a living' doing it...certainly we need dealers...but I wont pay a penny more than I have to, I can grade my own coins and I dont need all that MS-whatever that makes people think that they can charge that much more. Thats just me. I prefer to, when I can, deal with someone whose bread is not buttered with coin money if at all possible...like you said, the part timers...they are more, IMO, likely not to try to eek every little dime they can because they need to eat. They make a living elsewhere and deal in coins as a side thing...If they take less of a profit on a coin, its no big deal. Just my opinion... As for the private mints, I have no idea what you are talking about...these guys MINT COINS to fill a need and mint all quality from low to high quality that is far better than the US mint in some cases. Whether they become collector's items or not, they mint and people buy them for a reason... tokens...medals...commemoratives for organizations...there is a big market for this. I am a member of an organization and we had a private mint do us up some tokens to hand out to members...nobody cares if the value goes up...its something for our members to have and pass out...the military mints tokens and medals, companies mint up tokens as give aways... organizations have medals made...It does not matter it they go up in value...they are minted for specific people and groups for a specific purpose. They are >gasp< producing something that people want, who come to them and request and buy...they are mint masters minting coins and tokens...I think its great. Besides that, the private mint stuff that is just fantasy coins...they are interesting. I do not collect for value alone...every coin I collect doesnt have to go up in value or it is 'junk'...there are some wonderful coins being minted from private mints...they ARE at least worth the metal they are minted on...and what people will buy it for because they are novel...I have never, and will never base a coins worth to be in my collection on whether I can look in a catalog each year and see the value go up a buck or two...and in fact Toms coins are listed in the catalog of unusual world coins...they are quite good and interesting. They are probably minting better quality coins than the US mint these days. As for books, if you say so, I wonder how many people put food on the table when it comes to writing books...certainly it is a small market but more power to anyone who does so. Teaching is certainly admirable. Certainly if a person is collecting for 20 years and they are not an expert yet in what they collect, they are doing something wrong...they have never looked into the finer points of the hobby, are very casual collectors and will not be looking for a job anyway...If you cant look at a coin and get a general F VF XF UNC...well...maybe you should ask other collectors...IMO grading can be done by a few collectors if you know any at all. All these are just humble opinions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtryka Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Is anyone else amused by the fact that we are arguing about how much money dealers make in dealing coins, when at the bottom of it all, what we all collect is just plain money that could be used to purchase all those necessities of life anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostDutchman Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 hahaha very true jeff!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Is anyone else amused by the fact that we are arguing about how much money dealers make in dealing coins, when at the bottom of it all, what we all collect is just plain money that could be used to purchase all those necessities of life anyway? Yeah, its hard enough to convince my wife that I want to spend money on money...like paying 20 dollars for a penny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedeadpoint Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 have seen many young people doing this job and last year was blown away by a 16 year old girl at the F.U.N. show working for a dealer. She was a very knowledgeable Y.N. and did a great job! Your other option could be a local coin shop. Im going to be very honest with you and this should not dissuade you. Jobs in the coin industry are not easy to get. They look for people who are very knowledgeable about their coins. My best advice... learn learn learn... if you want a job in the industry... your going to need to impress someone with your knowledge some day. I really wanted to work for a dealer when I was home more often. I dont mind starting at the bottom of the ladder: take out the trash, vacuum, label coins, etc. But i'd be able to be around coins and learn more and more. No dice though. The one time i asked a dealer the shop wasnt doing great business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 I have never been in a shop in the US that seemed to be doing a lot of business...I havent been in a lot though so... The only shop I have been into that seemed to do a lot of business was in Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rittenhouse Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 As for dealers of coins...without doubt they are needed and if a person wants to try his/her hand at this...no problem...I tend to like the idea of people doing it out of the love of the hobby and arent trying to make a living off the coins...once selling a coin becomes a matter of 'I need to eat' is when coins are bought far below to eek all the profit one can as they sell for the highest price they can its just a commodity to them...and then add in the middle men, the flippers and whatever they add because they sent it to a third party grading service...now its an investment and they wouldn't want it any other way... So yeah, I am cheap and disdain anything that will raise the price because someone 'wanted to make a living' doing it...certainly we need dealers...but I wont pay a penny more than I have to, I can grade my own coins and I dont need all that MS-whatever that makes people think that they can charge that much more. Thats just me. I prefer to, when I can, deal with someone whose bread is not buttered with coin money if at all possible...like you said, the part timers...they are more, IMO, likely not to try to eek every little dime they can because they need to eat. They make a living elsewhere and deal in coins as a side thing...If they take less of a profit on a coin, its no big deal. Just my opinion... So, the small timer does it for the love of the hobby and is willing to take less of a profit by selling for less or paying more? I don't think so. I pay as little as I possibly can and sell for as much as I can. Perhaps you'd like to illustrate this point by offering folks on the board more than going price for several K of coins and offering to sell the same amount for less than going price? Also, does this just apply to coins or do you expect people to build houses, make cars, program computers, etc. for the love of it and forgo eating? As for the private mints, I have no idea what you are talking about...these guys MINT COINS to fill a need... First, the matter at hand was your diatribe against people making money off coins. The collector token folks are doing just that and far more in line with your diatribe in the sense of providing little or no value for money spent. Secondly, some do fill a need as in tokens for vending machines, etc. Some don't. There is a difference between filling an actual need and simply supplying a product. People need housing and food, they do not NEED JRR Tolkien medallions. The former are necessities, the latter are niceties purchased with disposable income (in the truest sense of the word since nearly all cost is lost). If you do not understand this you should take a business course. They are probably minting better quality coins than the US mint these days. What does the quality coming from the US (or any other) Mint have to do with the matter at hand - i.e., the ethics or value of folks making money from coins? As for books, if you say so, I wonder how many people put food on the table when it comes to writing books...certainly it is a small market but more power to anyone who does so. Teaching is certainly admirable. You seem terribly conflicted. First you rail against someone "trying to eat" selling coins and then pose the opposite regarding educational materials. In any case, you do not need to wonder. Writing can provide a nice supplemental income. Rather than the extremes of eating or not, think of it as the difference between eating hamburger or filet mignon. Although certainly in the case of the professonal cataloger (who do you think writes the auction catalogs) it is a matter of eating. BTW LostDutchman, I do not view dealers or graders as evil - neither necessary or inherent. They are required service providers. Without them collectors would have a very difficult time locating product. Some may be ethically evil in practice due to how the act, but most are neither good nor evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 So, the small timer does it for the love of the hobby and is willing to take less of a profit by selling for less or paying more? I don't think so. I pay as little as I possibly can and sell for as much as I can. Perhaps you'd like to illustrate this point by offering folks on the board more than going price for several K of coins and offering to sell the same amount for less than going price? Also, does this just apply to coins or do you expect people to build houses, make cars, program computers, etc. for the love of it and forgo eating? I am just speaking from experience...I have never sold a coin so I wouldn't know what they buy for...and if they buy for less...great, I want to buy for as less as possible as well, certainly if I had to sell I would also remember those who SOLD for less. From my experience the small part time dealer is more willing to cut a deal...what he makes off me isn't paying rent or buying food, its part time and yeah...from my experience they are people who love coins and decide to buy extra, have a good source that sells to them low, whatever...I have gotten the BEST deals from small part timers...dont agree? I guess we all have our own experience. If you as a part timer will eek every dime you can get for your coins...that's your right and mine to avoid you. First, the matter at hand was your diatribe against people making money off coins. The collector token folks are doing just that and far more in line with your diatribe in the sense of providing little or no value for money spent. Secondly, some do fill a need as in tokens for vending machines, etc. Some don't. There is a difference between filling an actual need and simply supplying a product. People need housing and food, they do not NEED JRR Tolkien medallions. The former are necessities, the latter are niceties purchased with disposable income (in the truest sense of the word since nearly all cost is lost). If you do not understand this you should take a business course. What does the quality coming from the US (or any other) Mint have to do with the matter at hand - i.e., the ethics or value of folks making money from coins? You seem terribly conflicted. First you rail against someone "trying to eat" selling coins and then pose the opposite regarding educational materials. You are a bit confused and need to re-read the thread as, I think, in your haste to bicker you lost the direction the conversation had taken but I will endeavor to quickly explain. There is no conflict at all. I suggested that the creator of this thread might think of going into minting coins instead of all the other careers suggested. Why I suggested this, as I explained, is that you are MINTING coins, creating a product that WE all love. You are learning the craft that creates what we collect and by doing this, she could become a mint master and possibly even one day have a say in the direction of this hobby. When private mints were brought up, it was suggested that these places created worthless junk in essence. I defended what they create as being a service, manufacturing something that people often need and want. Whether it be a commemorative medal / token, vending machine token, military coin, fantasy piece whatever...people want and need these...and as for junk, well I sure would rather collect a coin from shire than most modern US coins...thus the reference to the US mint. In my mind there is a world of difference between making a living CREATING coins, medals and tokens...and eeking a few dollars out of collector to look at a coin, subjectively give it a grade from a needless expanded grading system, encasing it in a slab anyone can purchase, and then putting an acronym on it so the person can somehow jack the price for the coin, somehow this coins value just went up by doing this... Like I said, its all opinion...a man who mints artistic, stunning fantasy coins that people love to buy and enjoy, in my opinion, is offering so much more than the collector turned pro grader.... No conflict here...I think the less of a business COLLECTING is the better...minting is a whole different subject...which is why I suggested it...it has nothing to do with COLLECTING save that what they create for use in other ways is often collected as well...Its the difference between the craftsman who created a wonderfull artistic chair, and the person who sells it as an antique. One guy created a chair, it was sold, now others are making money off it down the line charging to appraise it, conserve it, resell it, whatever. It is manufacting, in some cases it is a craft, a skill, a service, offering a real product that has a real use or like art, someone wants for the sheer pleasure...and without it, what would we collect? They create what I love to collect...its a hobby thus obviously the coins I often by are not something like a house, needed...but most were at one time, in circulation and crafted by mintmaster and artisans in the past. the other, IN MY OPINION...is useless and not needed...I will say again that collectors survived for years without the need for a slab with an acronym and they will survive for ever without them....if you buy into it, no problem, I dont, wont, and I think its useless. In any case, you do not need to wonder. Writing can provide a nice supplemental income. Rather than the extremes of eating or not, think of it as the difference between eating hamburger or filet mignon. Although certainly in the case of the professonal cataloger (who do you think writes the auction catalogs) it is a matter of eating. BTW LostDutchman, I do not view dealers or graders as evil - neither necessary or inherent. They are required service providers. Without them collectors would have a very difficult time locating product. Some may be ethically evil in practice due to how the act, but most are neither good nor evil. That is exactly what I said, I figure people who write numismatic related books mostly supplement an income with it, do not make a living off them, the audience is just not there for it to be otherwise...as for catalogers, these people provide a vital service to collectors...and its not an easy job. as for your last statement above, I have highlighted your error. Certainly dealers are required, graders are not, they are not required service providers nor would it be difficult locating product without them. Lastly, let me clarify...I do not hate dealers, writers, people who sell supplies, etc...Without many of these people, like you say, it would be difficult. I merely expressed the opinion, and my experience, that I have had the best experiences with part time dealers who do not have rent to pay, food bills, and what not on the money from coin sells...Larger scale dealers are FAR less likely to accept my offer of less (I often offer to pay less than listed) while smaller part timers will often take that lesser profit as its often not all business to them. If you observe a theme in my post, it is that I do not like people turning by hobby into a business and making it about money (pardon the pun). I do not mind people who offer real services that are needed for the hobby like the coins themselves (making or selling), supplies, reference books, even books about aspects of collecting to help teach the collector. The third party grader, in my opinion, is all about the business of coins, complicating the process, making a buck doing something anyone can do on their own with just a small amount of study...it has introduced what I feel is an unsavory aspect into a hobby...certainly if people want to use them, more power to you...but I just dont rank them as something that is anyway needed in the hobby and, in fact, I see their presence and influence as negative...I don't like those who see collecting as a way to make profits, as a business and collectors as people to rake as much money from as they can however they can. Again, just a completely subjective opinion from an old collector... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 ... Several advanced catalogers & senior numismatists I know are making less than 50K. They may be "advanced" but definitely want "easy" job. Something prevents them from finding better jobs, may be age or luck of similar jobs in their area or just laziness (they are satisfied with what they have). Small dealers rarely get an assistant from outside, the issue of trust is the most important, there are just too many goods in a store to steal. Working for a large company may be a good idea, but not that many of them are around. 90% if not more of all coin companies are small businesses, most of them have less than 10 people. The way to really prosper in this field (I think) is to learn business and become a dealer. Then you have no earning limits... In any case... good luck in finding your own ways... WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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