Xaxol Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 Hi, I am new to this forum! And I alreadu have a coin for you to look at, what are you thoughts about this one, weight jumps from 10.3 to 10.4 my weights do not display 100s of grams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 Welcome to coinpeople! Wow that coin looks Proofish! The weight of a proper platinum 3 ruble coin is 10.35 grams. It does make me wonder why you didn't get a proper scale when you can afford such ruble. Unfortunately with the case with some platinum coins, it is difficult to tell if yours is an original coin or not due to high levels of counterfeiting. I never hada an Imperial Russian platinum coin and one user in this forum can tell you his bad experience of how he got burnt by having a few counterfeited platinum rubles. Hope you enjoy your time here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaxol Posted March 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 The coin is a present, i wouldnt be able to pay for such luxurious coin as this one. So can anyone here identify it, i mean the authentity of it. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 If it is a Proof-like coin (or proof) and indeed genuine, you are talking about a VERY expensive coin! Easily SEVERAL GRAND!!! Seriously, while you might want to listen to half of our stories, you should send it for authenitication such as PCGS or NGC as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 Platinum coins are very dangerous nowdays. Even experts often cannot tell a fake from original. NGC and PSGS slab these fakes because they often cannot tell the difference. Last NY auctions -- at least 50% of platinum coins were fake. Some were slabbed. I was offered 3 r. 1828 2 months ago for $4000. Thus, it is becoming very lucrative to counterfeit even smaller issue. Doubt anyone can say that this is an original coin from the pictures. The only thing that can be spotted from the photograph is if the coin is an obvious fake. And, to me. this one is not obvious. P.S. I would only buy a platinum coin if it had some auction or collection provenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 BKB - out of curiosity, how were the platinum coins n the last NY show that you mentioned determined to be counterfeit? At least 50% is awfully a lot! Were they sent to a mass spectrometry lab to test the inpurities which determined if they are couterfeits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLeningradDutch Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 Picture is taken in 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaxol Posted March 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 It was taken yesterday, i just dont bother set the time on my camera every time i turn it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 BKB - out of curiosity, how were the platinum coins n the last NY show that you mentioned determined to be counterfeit? At least 50% is awfully a lot! Were they sent to a mass spectrometry lab to test the inpurities which determined if they are couterfeits? 3 specialists went through them and agreed on the fake ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 3 specialists went through them and agreed on the fake ones. Hopefully this was done before the auction took place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 Look at the edge near the crown and the left wing. I think it's a double strike and also a strike with increasing power and this is one of the properties of the proof. If they started to reproduce these properties in counterfeiting it's time to stop collecting coins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 What were the slabbed Platinum coins that were found to be fakes? And what are names of 3 Russian specialists that found them to be fakes? WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 Look at the edge near the crown and the left wing. I think it's a double strike and also a strike with increasing power and this is one of the properties of the proof. If they started to reproduce these properties in counterfeiting it's time to stop collecting coins there is a funny line on the obverse, radiating from the eagles breast shield, out to the edge at 9 oclock. i dont know if that means anything. but its noticeable, for sure. Die break? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 there is a funny line on the obverse, radiating from the eagles breast shield, out to the edge at 9 oclock.i dont know if that means anything. but its noticeable, for sure. Die break? That line goes through entire coin from left side 9:30 to right side 3:30. Well visible just above upper part of scepter. It may be remaining of adjustment mark. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 I was not quite right in my previous message about double strike but the edge I mentioned is one of the proof properties. Here is what Basok saying in his paper about proof and regular strikes: Ребро монеты и перпендикулярные к нему плоскости образуют "проволочный ободок". Это результат повышенной силы удара и полного заполнения металлом штемпеля. Together with mirror-like surface, in my amateur opinion, this coin is proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 What were the slabbed Platinum coins that were found to be fakes? And what are names of 3 Russian specialists that found them to be fakes? WCO It is a good question. I'd like to know the details as well , if possible, because I hear some rumors too. However, I do not see prices or interest in those coins go south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 It is a good question. I'd like to know the details as well , if possible, because I hear some rumors too.However, I do not see prices or interest in those coins go south. It was a semi-private discussion 30 min. before one of the auctions started. There was one serious collector from Russia, 2 serious dealers from Russia and one US dealer who specializes in Russian coins. I do not want mention names, because if these people wanted to go public, they would publish an article in RNS journal Most, if not all of fakes mentioned were slabbed. I did not record the specific coins, because I do not specifically collect platinum. However, the only platinum coin that I now have, has an auction history going back to 1985, which was one of the reasons why I bought it. As to the prices/interest -- consider Stack's sale. Lot #3382 That was a beautiful coin. It looked very original to me. Had some alleged provenance/history. With only 11 pcs. reportedly struck!!!!! The sale price was under $30,000. How much would a silver rouble with such mintage sell nowdays? It could, of course, be due to the fact that platinum is less popular, but, it could be due to the fact that the market is flooded with platinum fakes which make platinum less popular. (IMXO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 The game back then was: "Tell everyone it's a fake, then buy it cheaper". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 The game back then was: "Tell everyone it's a fake, then buy it cheaper". Nice game plan ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 Nice game plan ! As we can see now it obviously succeeded! WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 WCO, although that is an evil plan - I can see why one wouldn't say that. It's a "posssibility". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 The game back then was: "Tell everyone it's a fake, then buy it cheaper". Whatever. There are some people I still trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 WCO, although that is an evil plan - I can see why one wouldn't say that. It's a "posssibility". Oh, that's not an "evil" plan, only some collectors who readily trust "rumors" can fall for it. This is the easiest kind of "games", there are way more sophisticated kinds. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaxol Posted March 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Seriously, while you might want to listen to half of our stories, you should send it for authenitication such as PCGS or NGC as soon as possible. Thats a bit of a problem for me as I live in Kiev, and as far as I know there are no organizations here as PCGS or NGC . So I cant see the way to get it certified officially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Thats a bit of a problem for me as I live in Kiev, and as far as I know there are no organizations here as PCGS or NGC . So I cant see the way to get it certified officially. Even if you could get it certified by PCGS or NGC, what does that prove? Unlike what some dealers want you to believe, State Historical Museum in Moscow is far better equipped for authentication of Russian, and, especially, platinum coinage. From what I understand, it is possible to take the coin in and out of Russia for authentication purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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