kisenish Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Dear community , In the full version of Conros catalog, it is stated that two kind of 1915 Roubles exist: Low relief and High relief (maybe, similar to Romanow roubles). My question: How can one clearly distinguish between those varieties? Are there some distinct features (rim width, some dots)? Interestingly, no one else writes about these differences, maybe Kazakov, but I don't have his book. Here are two Roubles I have. Sometimes it seems to me that one coin has a high relief and another - low. What do you think about them? Maybe, these differences are just imagination of Mr. Semenov from Conros? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Dear community , In the full version of Conros catalog, it is stated that two kind of 1915 Roubles exist: Low relief and High relief (maybe, similar to Romanow roubles). My question: How can one clearly distinguish between those varieties? Are there some distinct features (rim width, some dots)? Interestingly, no one else writes about these differences, maybe Kazakov, but I don't have his book. Here are two Roubles I have. Sometimes it seems to me that one coin has a high relief and another - low. What do you think about them? Maybe, these differences are just imagination of Mr. Semenov from Conros? [...images snipped...] Kazakov lists only one variety for 1915. It would be very surprising, considering the low mintage figures, if there were many different dies in use for that year. Of course, we know that they were restruck after the revolution in unknown quantities; however, nowhere is there mention of special dies (it would be nice because then, maybe one could tell which were originals and which were "novodel" Soviet strikes. ) Actually, for standard issue roubles, 1901 seems to be the last year for such obverse die varieties for roubles (1914 pyatak has low and high relief varieties, for example). Looking at your pictures, I cannot see any difference except that the first coin has a little bit more wear than the second. As RW Julian once pointed out, most of the varieties of this kind can be differentiated by the position of the denticles relative to the legend text. They look exactly the same to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 In the full version of Conros catalog, it is stated that two kind of 1915 Roubles exist: Low relief and High relief Hmm....Never heard of this before for 1915... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisenish Posted December 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Thanks for your comment, Bob! Funny is that, after I got to know about these varieties from Conros, one day one coin seems to have a relief struck and another day - another one. Today they seem to be the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisenish Posted December 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Hmm....Never heard of this before for 1915... Me too Conros is the only source listing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Me too Conros is the only source listing it Is it the new one, 2007 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisenish Posted December 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Is it the new one, 2007 ? No, it's 8th edition (2006), full version, no 82/61 (low relief, $100 in VF) and 82/62 (high relief, $300 in VF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 No, it's 8th edition (2006), full version, no 82/61 (low relief, $100 in VF) and 82/62 (high relief, $300 in VF) I do not have that one... BTW, how can I order 2007 catalog to the States ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisenish Posted December 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 I do not have that one... BTW, how can I order 2007 catalog to the States ? Oh, this I haven't tried, I always took the Conros books while visiting my parents in Russia. Try to contact them, I think that's possible. On the last Numismata (coin fair in Germany) they also had books for sale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Oh, this I haven't tried, I always took the Conros books while visiting my parents in Russia. Try to contact them, I think that's possible. On the last Numismata (coin fair in Germany) they also had books for sale Thanks, I'll try. I have no plan on going to Russia any time soon Hopefully, someone from Conros will be in New York in 2 weeks for the International Coin Convention and I'll be able to get a copy. Are you coming? The Oldman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisenish Posted December 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Thanks, I'll try. I have no plan on going to Russia any time soon Hopefully, someone from Conros will be in New York in 2 weeks for the International Coin Convention and I'll be able to get a copy. Are you coming? The Oldman Would be great to attend, but I'm in Cologne, Germany, unfortunately it's far away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Would be great to attend, but I'm in Cologne, Germany, unfortunately it's far away Just 6-7 hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Julian Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Kazakov lists only one variety for 1915. It would be very surprising, considering the low mintage figures, if there were many different dies in use for that year. Of course, we know that they were restruck after the revolution in unknown quantities; however, nowhere is there mention of special dies (it would be nice because then, maybe one could tell which were originals and which were "novodel" Soviet strikes.Actually, for standard issue roubles, 1901 seems to be the last year for such obverse die varieties for roubles (1914 pyatak has low and high relief varieties, for example). Looking at your pictures, I cannot see any difference except that the first coin has a little bit more wear than the second. As RW Julian once pointed out, most of the varieties of this kind can be differentiated by the position of the denticles relative to the legend text. They look exactly the same to me. This is the first time that I have heard of the high and low relief issues for 1915. The 1915 obverse hub was first used in 1914 and I have not seen any difference in the relationship of the denticles to the lettering for either year. Perhaps someone at Conros saw an especially well-struck 1915 proof rouble having the appearance of high relief for the portrait. RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 This is something I wanted to ask for a long time. Remember how the Gangut ruble, 1911 10 rubles (?) and 1915 ruble were restruck later during the Soviet era? Is it not possible that the quality differed so much that it had higher relief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Conros people sold a few 1915 Rubles that were listed with this text: "Ruble 1915-BC, Silver, Possible high relief variety". Рубль 1915 г. ВС Ag. Возможно рельефный чекан. Here are the links to these "possibly high relief" coins: http://auction.conros.ru/auction.cgi?lotID=91889 http://auction.conros.ru/auction.cgi?lotID=109914 Do they really look as high relief? And since Conros used word "possible", it means they can not actually distinguish it too. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Thanks, I'll try. I have no plan on going to Russia any time soon Hopefully, someone from Conros will be in New York in 2 weeks for the International Coin Convention and I'll be able to get a copy. Are you coming? The Oldman January 13, 4PM Meeting: Russian Numismatic Society Program: TBA Sutton Suite Mr. Conros himself might be there. He always brings a few books for sale. Stop by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 January 13, 4PM Meeting: Russian Numismatic SocietyProgram: TBA Sutton Suite Mr. Conros himself might be there. He always brings a few books for sale. Stop by. If I make to the NYC this year, I'll likely see you all there. Thanks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Conros people sold a few 1915 Rubles that were listed with this text: "Ruble 1915-BC, Silver, Possible high relief variety". Рубль 1915 г. ВС Ag. Возможно рельефный чекан. Here are the links to these "possibly high relief" coins: http://auction.conros.ru/auction.cgi?lotID=91889 http://auction.conros.ru/auction.cgi?lotID=109914 Do they really look as high relief? And since Conros used word "possible", it means they can not actually distinguish it too. WCO These two different lots actually show the same coin. However, they are in two different auctions, so I suppose this is OK. There are many distinguishing marks, such as the scratch at 2 o'clock and rim ding at 6 o'clock (both on the obverse). But it is not "high relief", IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 These two different lots actually show the same coin. However, they are in two different auctions, so I suppose this is OK. There are many distinguishing marks, such as the scratch at 2 o'clock and rim ding at 6 o'clock (both on the obverse). But it is not "high relief", IMHO. bobh, Right, this is the same coin, just was for sale on two different auctions. Thanks for showing. Agree with you, it's NOT a "high relief". IMHO WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marv Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 I hadn't visited the Conros site before. Thanks for providing the link. Is it possible to search through all the auctions for specific coins/dates? I am looking for history for any 1826 Nicholas I roubles (rubles?). (By the way, what IS the accepted spelling in English for a Rouble (Ruble)?) Also, I notice that "Coin People" is/are using my 5 Kopek Novodel picture on the home page at far right. This coin is listed in my collection in OmniCoin. I think it would be nice to credit the collection along with the picture. Nobody asked for permission (it's not really necessary - but would be nice) to post this picture. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 (By the way, what IS the accepted spelling in English for a Rouble (Ruble)?) I think either spelling should be okay. Rouble seems more common and I believe is derived from the French translation. Germans seem to use Rubel. Direct transliteration from Russian gives Rubl', which doesn't seem to work well in English, hence Ruble. Either Rouble or Ruble is okay with me, although others might disagree. The main thing is that your meaning is understood and either spelling should accomplish that goal. Also, I notice that "Coin People" is/are using my 5 Kopek Novodel picture on the home page at far right. This coin is listed in my collection in OmniCoin. I think it would be nice to credit the collection along with the picture. Nobody asked for permission (it's not really necessary - but would be nice) to post this picture. Thanks. It looks like the picture has been removed by the board admin(s), probably as a result of your post. Nice coin! BTW, welcome to CP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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