extant4cell

Thank you Alex. It's funny how everyone tried to ID their coins once they read your post. I did the same. I think that if the coin doesn't have enough details (like most of my 2 kopeks with St.George) one may be able to identify mint by the dragons' smiles (faces). See how MD dragons are trying to bite their spears (#5 even has teeth!) most of the time? EM sucks on it, where as SPB opens it's mouth wide to swallow. I'm sure it's not always the case, but did anyone every try to classify mints by dragon faces before? It could be useful...

it is indeed a nice effort, thanks for sharing!

I think on some Russian forums they deem more coins to be fakes than they really should, even without any hard evidence, simply by the majority vote. The reason for that is that they want to be liked by "oldies". Making a mistake of sticking out for a genuine coin if in the end one of moderators will say it's a fake coin, may cost them their reputation, so they often say that coin is a fake (simply because they don't like it for some mysterious reason, that they have difficulty voicing [which is OK sometimes, if you say "I don't like it" and don't say "I don't like it so it must be a fake"]) hoping for moderator to correct them. If no moderator interjects, the coin, which may in fact be a genuine coin, is deemed to be a fake by a majority incompetent vote. This is my observation. The coins that Alex presented here, in my opinion are genuine enough, in spite of them being so similar, which is unusual, but that's about it. Thank you Alex for sharing though. I find CFN for example full of useful information...

After help from everyone here, alas, I must agree with you. Looks like it is somebody's doing...

In my management model I have one rule I always follow: "If it works don't %@#$ with it!" eBay obviously managed by some high rollers that are trying to make eBay more user-friendly to a mysterious group of buyers (obviously) as for us it is getting worse and worse... I love eBay, but I hate these reality removed idiots that authorise these stupid changes that make using eBay for what I need a hell of a thing.

For the coin covered with wax it did ring well enough. There was no clunk sound, Squirrel, but the high pitch ringing did not exactly lingered. Again, I believe that wax is a problem on the coin (or artificial patina, or even patina looking paint/putty as you may suspect). I don't know if it was tempered with or not, and if its patina is genuine at all (it looks genuine to me, with some dark brown and dark green areas, but it definitely was kind of ruined by wax). The coin on a whole, I agree with you, that if someone tried to sell me a coin like this one for big money, I would be researching it and treating this coin with a big, healthy chunk of suspiciousness. I also agree with you Alex, that "Dve Kopejiki" inscription looks very strange, paticular the "o". I will leave it at that for now. But if any other thoughts or information will come up about this coin, please share.

On the physical inspection, this one doesn't look like an overstrike. I could not find any overstrike details and the field looks pretty smooth and solid. The "Two Kopeks" part is sharp enough just to suit the rest of the coin. The problem with photographing it is that it is covered with coin wax or lacquer as someone tried to use it on this coin to see what the result would be, but didn't use it to the rest of it. It's hard to say what the edge looked like as it is beaten. I can not see any "netted" or "rope" details, unless they are smoothed out, but when I feel it with my finger it feels as smoothed out "inscription" edge, but again, I can not find a single trace of lettering. In any case, even with better pictures I still don't know how to classify this coin. Coin doesn't look or feel like a fake. It actually gives a good feel about it when you hold it. It doesn't look like an overstrike (that was original description by the seller, and I kept it for file names so far. I'll change them once I know that it is). Is it possible that it was a recut die? or that someone tooled with it, trying to change the lettering? Both are possible, I guess, as both letters are a little out of wack.

OMG I have a lot of coins... just some of them without any pictures... I went through the boxes in the garage and found coins from my old collection. I have lots of fun now looking through them I found the coin in question and updated it on OmniCoin. Sorry, pictures made quickly. Here it is: and the parts in question enlarged: Looks like it is 1788. T in TM has mechanical damage by the look of it. I thought the edge was a smoothed out inscription, but I'm not so sure now: As far as I know 2 kopecks (this type) edge was only in rope, netted, inscription or ornamented. Please comment...

M looks a little different and T has a different angle. Thank you Alex for this picture! What was wrong with that one exactly? I don't like the look of M on my coin, but the positioning of the letters (that I didn't like in a start) seam to be probable. Here are a couple somewhat similar TMs (big T and skinny M): http://www.mcsearch.info/record.html?id=299851 http://www.mcsearch.info/record.html?id=162217

The coin description and the pictures were taken by me from the original eBay listing some 4-5 years ago. When I get around it I will retake the picture myself. Sigi, I was planning to do this this year anyway, but may actually start with this coin. I played with the bits of the pictures a little and that's a result: the description stated that it was MM 1788, but on the picture the year is not very clear and I see your points re: TM/MM and must agree that it's not MM. To say 100% that it is TM I can not, simply because, although, the first letter looks too similar to T, it's a lot wider than M, so they don't exactly match. Alex and all, if you can point to the direction of the coin discussion that Alex mentioned I'd appreciate that. Cheers!

That is what strikes me... I can not understand why these scratches have appeared on the die. And they are very similar, look like from some kind of a metal clip or tongs. The party goes on! This year we had friends over and I only slept for 2 hours. Babies wake up too early for the New Year day.....

http://omnicoin.com/coin/1014513 the description reads: 1788 2 Kopeks MM Edge Inscription Paul I recoining... This coin is from my old collection, and is still packed away after we moved. I hope go get these coins out early this year when I have time. i'll make better pictures then and will examine it again. Is it good or bad for this coin? TM-s are very rare as you know and I would be interested to learn how significant this information to this coin... Happy New Year to ALL!!!

Thanks, I have one. Happy New Year Everyone!!!! I am 1 hour in a new year already....

Wait a minute, it may be a rope! It doesn't say in the description, I only have the pictures to go by... I see what you see... What does it look to you? My first impression was ||||||, but rope may look like this as well, when you don't see the edge.... I feel a bit of a fool now... Ok, let's make it a proper roped Novodel. What do you think it will be worth?

I ment that in relations to this coin. I have Uzdenikov 2004. New Type Denga 1796: 1) Coin 2934, Novodel, edge: rope. 2) Coin 2935, edge: reeded (ribbed). But no mentioning of Novodel (2934) with reeded edge and I could find only one going through the auctions that looks like it's edge is reeded. Uzdenikov does not speak of different edges as type 1, 2 etc. He speaks of lets say rope edge as having type 1 or 2 (depending on the angle), etc. That's why I got confused with your mentioning of the Type of Edge a bit. He does list it in his additional notes first in the list of edges, but not as a type 1... How much would you risk on this one? What would you find to be a reasonable amount?

Yes, that's what I meant by reeded edge (sort of chopped on a side ) ... I didn't know there were Novodel Denga's of this year with this edge around. I couldn't find reference to this type of edge. But just managed to find one: http://www.m-dv.ru/m...ges-prohod.html How much would you risk on this one? What would you find to be reasonable amount. Mind that seller sells it as Novodel.

It the reeded edge a problem? How much would you value the coin on the picture presented? I am interested to buy it, if the coin is OK and the price is right.

Steve, can you please comment on reeded edge? That what worries me the most. And these gouges in the die, as Art pointed out, also are very intriguing, with upper ones being a mirror image of the lower ones...

This is the only picture of the coin available. These are very strange, I'd even say "symmetrical" scratches...

Your opinion on this coin please. I compared it to two known novodels, very close, but not 100%, including the edge (I didn't see novodels with reeded edge). Unfortunately, I am not an expert in novodels, so would welcome your input. Here is the picture:

It's a simple netted edge, but I love that coin! It has nice patina

These two I received on Friday They were waiting for me in the envelope under the Xmas Tree. My New Year presents

I wish I could get my hands on this one: Someone was asking to evaluate this coin on a Russian forum. Unfortunately it's out of my reach in Russia. I am missing this type (overstrike from 2k to 4k). It's an ugly overstrike thought. If anyone sees one like this for sale anywhere, let me know.

Let me know if you find a duplicate in your collection, I'd love to have a better coin to represent ornamented cipher

Thank you Alex. Just noticed that I don't have any ornamented cipher coins of this type. Tried to find them on eBay and this was the only one I could find in the last few days, so I bought it. Probably a mistake, should have waited longer, but rush - rush - rush... I am not going to collect the series in the new future, so a single example like this one will do for now... But I wish it was in a better condition...