extant4cell Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Very nice modern coin, marked N. Seller claims that this is a modern official Novodel. Definitely not made with the original dies, but with novodels' it is possible. Does anyone know if this is an official Novodel or just another skilful counterfeit (however nice it may be)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Missprint, it is 5 Kopeks , but the questions are still stand as before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Replica. They came out about 10 years ago, all with that little "H" stamp. Nothing official -- the only reason it is not a fake is that it is marked... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kopeikin Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Be careful! This is just worthless souvenir. Price this seller claims for it in eBay is a fraud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Worthless, indeed Not even similar to the real thing. I heard that they were (maybe are still being) made for tourists and fleamarkets. Sigi - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 I've seen them in even in early nineties. There was a lot of them back then. Not sure if someone is still making new ones, or the old stocks are shifting around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Thank you for your answers. I am aware of replicas of these 10 kops, but the ones I came across before had a lot cruder detail. This is the first one with "N stamp" and a lot finer details that I found. A very tricky coin. Seller on eBay sells 3 "novodel" coins. All 3 with "N" and all 3 with finer details to the previously noted replicas (by me). I guess the counterfeiters’' techniques have improved. Seller mentions in his listing that a coin just like his was sold by Conros auction, can that be true or is this another fable, does anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Replica. They came out about 10 years ago, all with that little "H" stamp. Nothing official -- the only reason it is not a fake is that it is marked... Thank you for this info . I checked eBay and Molotok.ru (ala' Russian eBay) and couldn't find any similar coins being sold recently. Replica is a good name for it, but I would probably call it a fake of novodel, as if they didn't try to pass it as novodel they should have stamped it with "replica" or "copy" as they do on some Roman / Greek replicas I've seen. In any case, before it is proven to be a novodel to me, it is another fairytale coin production to me that someone is trying to cash in on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Sorry for double posts... I found another "fake replica" (since not stampt as "replica") without "N" stamp. Somebody made a fake Novodel from a fake coin... At least this seller doesn't ask for big $$$ http://molotok.ru/5-kopeek-1767-71-i2757747037.html Anothe FAKE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Thank you for your answers. I am aware of replicas of these 10 kops, but the ones I came across before had a lot cruder detail. This is the first one with "N stamp" and a lot finer details that I found. A very tricky coin. Seller on eBay sells 3 "novodel" coins. All 3 with "N" and all 3 with finer details to the previously noted replicas (by me). I guess the counterfeiters’' techniques have improved. Seller mentions in his listing that a coin just like his was sold by Conros auction, can that be true or is this another fable, does anyone know? Actually, a lot of them came with that H stamp. At that time, at flee markets, terms Novodel and Fake/Replica were completely interchangeable. Fakes were routinely called Novodels, and no one meant it as a reference to the 18th/19th century mint struck Novodels. It was just a polite way of referring to a coin that is not genuine. I think that left a bad taste in Russia for actual Novodel coins. BTW, I assume you know that the officially struck novodels did not have any such counterstamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 ...Novodels. It was just a polite way of referring to a coin that is not genuine. I think that left a bad taste in Russia for actual Novodel coins... This is sad... And confusing... I didn't follow the market for about 3 years due to family issues, so was wondering if I missed anything and they issued minted novodels. This is very sad that word novodel was used in such way, as there are some beautiful official novodels... BTW, I assume you know that the officially struck novodels did not have any such counterstamps. Yes I know that, but in this century with all sorts of laws and regulations, sometimes meaningless, but that must be followed, who knows what the real novodel coin would really look like would it be produced nowadays... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 these pieces with H - were made in coin shop in Russia for its local and school museums; it was discussed long time ago on all forums and in journal of RNS; looks like some found or purchased stock of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 these pieces with H - were made in coin shop in Russia for its local and school museums; it was discussed long time ago on all forums and in journal of RNS; looks like some found or purchased stock of it I believe they were sold/distributed in a set. All coins in the set have the same "H" countermark. Also, listed in Brekke supplement section on Fakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Official restrikes were done during 19th century - not in past few years. As noted above these new things can be found in bazaars, most sellers sell them as fakes, but occasionally you find seller that either deliberately says nothing or may not even know difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 or be happy to re-sell for te min profit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Oh, I run into a lot of dishonest seller on eBay in my time, but in most cases, if I ever bought a fake, I could return it for a refund... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RARENUM Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Replica. They came out about 10 years ago, all with that little "H" stamp. Nothing official -- the only reason it is not a fake is that it is marked... Correct .I see first time with letter "H" about 17-20 years ago , was purchasing from Germany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 at that time it was easy to bring them over there (Germany) and sell/re-sell world-wide as russia was still close to the west Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Interesting enough, but one of these "H" ("novodel") coins was on Hess-Divo AG 3 years ago: http://www.mcsearch.....html?id=358934 Was removed from sale... And one on Kunker (probably from similar series): http://www.mcsearch.info/record.html?id=350122... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 The second link opens a Sestroretsk rouble sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 The second link opens a Sestroretsk rouble sale. Why wasn't it sold if it was problem-free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Why wasn't it sold if it was problem-free? It wont fit in a slab. Thats a problem for some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Why wasn't it sold if it was problem-free? I can't tell if it's problem free - the picture is too blurry. But I think it has nothing to do with Siberian copper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I can't tell if it's problem free - the picture is too blurry. But I think it has nothing to do with Siberian copper. I didn't try to imply that , just another questionable piece that I found. A few years ago I was looking into one of the fake roubles like this one, so I was wondering if that was the one... I recently run into a few fakes that were sold by Auction houses as coins. So far all of them were removed from sale as far as I know. I guess people tell them to question the coin after they release the catalog. Are there any known fakes that gone through the sale that you know of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted December 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 Well, if it wasn't sold then (http://www.mcsearch.info/record.html?id=358934), it will be in just 40 min-s (price already at $430! - crazy!): http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/230895201484?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 And this one: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/230895199897?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 in 35 min, and already at $86! Bet that 10k will go for about 500! and 5k for around $150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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