jlueke Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 One look at a price guide in mint state grades and my mind quickly loops itself into overdrive. In MS63 this coin is $500, in MS64 $1000, and in MS65 $8000? This fact would make sense to me if grades were absolute and unquestioned standards. This would allow the equation to be reduced to simple supply and demand. However, a visit to the third party graders own web sites will reveal that grading is subjective and variance of a point or two is to be expected. This is confirmed in the ANA’s wonderful grading guide and from countless anecdotes from 1986 to the present. In 1994 Scott Travers wrote a column detailing this that can still be seen on the PCGS site. So if these grades are subjective why would anyone pay an extra $7000 for the MS65, why not just find a MS64 with eye appeal? The above illustrates my thought process on the price break. That sudden chasm in price separating two grades that can be found in virtually every US series. Lately I’ve been examining why this facet of collecting strikes a chord; the obvious answer is that I simply do not understand the concept in, I could not see myself paying that extra $7000 even if I had it to spend. Or would I? I now believe what I have objected to is simply paying the huge premium for coins based simply on the label. I would pay four times standard retail for the right Sasanian drachm, so why not for a US coin? My actual objection or confusion is based on an assumption that there are people who spend too much for coins and grades they do not understand. If you are a Seated Dollar connoisseur and you’ve seen all 12 MS65 dollars from a year the premium may seem like a bargain. If you just want a coin that says MS65 for vanity or for registry, that is your business but that is the action I still don’t understand. What do you think about price breaks and the people who buy at the high end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuldFartte Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 A lot of the spending I've seen for the higher grade coins are by folks who want to win the registry set game. The competition (mostly originated and stimulated by the TPG's) is fierce. It is beyond my comprehension why anyone would pay such huge prices, especially for "modern" coins, but "to each his or her own" I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trantor_3 Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 In MS63 this coin is $500, in MS64 $1000, and in MS65 $8000? How many of us can actually see the difference between a 64 and a 65? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccg Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 How many of us can actually see the difference between a 64 and a 65? And when you consider that most US TPGs use market grading, it gets even more confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 I guessing that it is just a total horrible marketing scheme. I mean, you might as well set the levels of MS63 prices up too. And remember, numbers most of the time are arbitary - those who want to pay for the full price, good for them! I probably wouldn't even bother... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan769 Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 You make a excellent point, and one of the reason I now shy away from older MS coins. The grading is so subjective, I'll stick to F-XF coins for now. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlueke Posted September 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 It is beyond my comprehension why anyone would pay such huge prices, especially for "modern" coins, but "to each his or her own" I guess. The modern's is another aspect. MS69 or MS70? The difference can be over $1000. That has to be registry stuff and good marketing. If I'm spending $2000 it better be Greek silver :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlueke Posted September 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 How many of us can actually see the difference between a 64 and a 65? I think if you are into a series and are looking at coins at shows on a regular basis you can get a good feel and separate coins out between adjacent grades and even within grades. If with that knowledge you choose to spend a lot more that I can understand. I guess I understand the ergistry game as well, at leats intelelctually, but I just don't get the motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 You only get the motivation when you have the money to spare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie582 Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 There's a lot to be said for the 'circulated' collector! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dockwalliper Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Its all about the Registry sets. Gotta have the Highest. Its just plain NUTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorwolf Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but since I shop only for MS coins, I have looked at a bunch and am beginning to improve my grading skills. I usually stay away from the next grade up if the cost is more than double the previous grade. That way there is not much downside risk if a potential buyer thinks my coin is overgraded, but lots of potential upside potential if I have chosen a coin at the top of its grade. The other hope with that strategy is that as demand (and price) for higher grades increase and become out of reach for some collectors, it will eventually put upward pressure on the value of the grade I have chosen. As investor-like as this sounds, I am truly a collector and never intend to sell my collection. But I enjoy thinking about the value I am getting for my money and knowing that I have made a good purchase. Someday if my heirs don't share my enjoyment of the hobby, they will still be able to benefit from my enjoyment of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDJMSP Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 You make a excellent point, and one of the reason I now shy away from older MS coins. The grading is so subjective, I'll stick to F-XF coins for now. Dan I take it you think it's different for coins graded F or XF - it's not. The dollar numbers are smaller yes, but the difference is still there. And market grading applies to circulated grades just like it does to MS grades. What was VF 10 years ago - is XF today. And what was XF 15 yrs ago - is AU today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burks Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Its all about the Registry sets. Gotta have the Highest. Its just plain NUTS. Exactly. If Bill over there has a MS 64 and there is only one coin higher than his, you'll pay anything to beat him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu62 Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Eye appeal is important,if a MS-65 is $6000 and a MS-64 is $2000,but the 64 looks better,jump on it .If you think the coin looks good others will too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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