alexbq2 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Lot 275 from this auction: http://rusnumismat.ru/index.php?mod=auction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Lot 275 from this auction: http://rusnumismat.ru/index.php?mod=auction If I remember it correctly this is a known trial strike. Not extremely but pretty rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RARENUM Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Lot 275 from this auction: http://rusnumismat.ru/index.php?mod=auction Well know trial new press coin, the same type coin sold Renaissance Auction#1, Boldwin’s sale, Tolstoy Collection... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 The Italian Tsar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 If I remember correctly, american engineer Champny traveled all over the place promoting his new technology for creating dies directly from coins. When he was demonstrating the technology at SPB Mint he happened to have with him the italian coin portrait side die that matched in size with 20 kopeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Below is how it is listed with interesting comment under #43 in a book of Grand Duke Georgii Mikhailovich "Description and images of some rare coins from my collection" Silver Jeton 1863 (minted in 1876), weight 4.88 gr Obverse: ...... Reverse:....... To get precise data on backfround of this coin I (Grand Duke) asked the Chief of SPB Mint Nikolai Pavlovich Follendorf and I received from him the following: The silver jeton depicted an Italian King Victor-Emanuel, from other side Russian State Arm, was struck at SPB Mint by a citizen of North-American States, engineer George Champney from Boston. It was struck at the following circumstances: in April 1876, enginner G Champney asked Minister of Finance about his invention to apply his new way of producing the coin dies; the steel dies can be prepared by one strike on steel not only by hardened master die but as well as from silver, gold and copper planchets; this method, tested on SPB, brought positive result; in addition, G Champney decided to prove that the ability of transitioning them to the common planchet; for that, he picked from Mint dies the one made by the Hamburg medallist Lorenso, being on duty at SPB at that time, a die of 20 kopeks.; this die (20 kopeks), was not approved because of its large relief of State Arm, but indeed by this reason this die was picked by G Champney, to prove that from his silver planchet, the die can be made with more deep relief; for other side, G Champney used a die with portrait of King Victor-Emanuel, prepared by him abroad from coin one lira; by the end of an experiment, this silver jeton, located now in your possesion (GD), the die of which made by him from silver planchet was destroyed, and a die with Victor -Emanuel returned to him back (to G Champney). Pls excuse if translation is not clear enough, tried with limited time (one-kuna) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RARENUM Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 My question is how we should call works of George Champney. My opinion we should call - Trial coin with combinations of two dies, not “Jeton” Some bodies have different opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 My question is how we should call works of George Champney. My opinion we should call - Trial coin with combinations of two dies, not “Jeton” Some bodies have different opinion? I join to the Grand Duke version that it cannot be called a coin as there is no value on it - therefore - trial silver jeton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Below is how it is listed with interesting comment under #43 in a book ofGrand Duke Georgii Mikhailovich "Description and images of some rare coins from my collection" Silver Jeton 1863 (minted in 1876), weight 4.88 gr Obverse: ...... Reverse:....... To get precise data on backfround of this coin I (Grand Duke) asked the Chief of SPB Mint Nikolai Pavlovich Follendorf and I received from him the following: The silver jeton depicted an Italian King Victor-Emanuel, from other side Russian State Arm, was struck at SPB Mint by a citizen of North-American States, engineer George Champney from Boston. It was struck at the following circumstances: in April 1876, enginner G Champney asked Minister of Finance about his invention to apply his new way of producing the coin dies; the steel dies can be prepared by one strike on steel not only by hardened master die but as well as from silver, gold and copper planchets; this method, tested on SPB, brought positive result; in addition, G Champney decided to prove that the ability of transitioning them to the common planchet; for that, he picked from Mint dies the one made by the Hamburg medallist Lorenso, being on duty at SPB at that time, a die of 20 kopeks.; this die (20 kopeks), was not approved because of its large relief of State Arm, but indeed by this reason this die was picked by G Champney, to prove that from his silver planchet, the die can be made with more deep relief; for other side, G Champney used a die with portrait of King Victor-Emanuel, prepared by him abroad from coin one lira; by the end of an experiment, this silver jeton, located now in your possesion (GD), the die of which made by him from silver planchet was destroyed, and a die with Victor -Emanuel returned to him back (to G Champney). Pls excuse if translation is not clear enough, tried with limited time (one-kuna) Thank you for this article. I was wandering why this jetton/trial had Victor Emanuel on it. I thought maybe St Petersburg mint was striking coins for Italy at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Lot 275 from this auction: http://rusnumismat.ru/index.php?mod=auction Wow! Very interesting specimen. Would this be considered a 'mule'? If so, I've never seen one with opposing patterns from two different countries before. In either case, thanks for sharing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RARENUM Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 I join to the Grand Duke version that it cannot be called a coin as there is no value on it - therefore - trial silver jeton With combinations of the dies from 2 coins? Links from Wikipedia 1)Jeton: http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:BS-RS...=clnk&gl=us 2}Mule(coin): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule_(coin) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 With combinations of the dies from 2 coins?Links from Wikipedia 1)Jeton: http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:BS-RS...=clnk&gl=us 2}Mule(coin): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule_(coin) I was expecting this question, - in all respects to the G Champney - it was an experiment only to prove the process itself, and as an action tool was taken two coin dies, however as a result of experiment - a trial piece (jeton) was made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Wow interesting. Whatever you want to call it, a pattern mule, fantasy, etc, it's simply wow. Thanks for showing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 I wouldn't go further in order to define if this one neither coin or jeton since I did not have it, I do not have it now and will not have it in the nearest future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 These, one plain edged, one reeded went for a hefty price http://www.icollector.com/Russian-Coins-an...-of-20_i8745839 http://www.icollector.com/Russian-Coins-an...-of-20_i8745840 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RARENUM Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 These, one plain edged, one reeded went for a hefty pricehttp://www.icollector.com/Russian-Coins-an...-of-20_i8745839 http://www.icollector.com/Russian-Coins-an...-of-20_i8745840 Very nice Highlights coins for any Russian Collection .Missing in Major Collections .First time mule coin was sold in 1910 Hess sale /Tolstoy Collection/ . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccg Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 You guys might want to also visit this recent post in the exonumia forum for more information on this topic: http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php?showtopic=25334 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRP Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 Mule?? I think it's so odd "Zebra" might be more appropriate! What a great little story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.