Undiscovered Goetz Shooting Medal

[Goetzdude]

I recently acquired this piece in auction out of Germany. I happened to be leafing through the auction catalog and recognized the obverse image of Ludwig as being the same exact image that Goetz had done for his K-22 commemorating the German Baker's exhibition two years earlier in 1905 (see below). The catalog description did not mention Goetz and the medal was not in Kienast (the definitive Goetz reference) so upon realizing I was looking at a medal that had remained undiscovered for 98 years, I bid high. I won low

I am assured that the obverse is a 'muled' image of Ludwig with a slight change in the legend. I am still researching the reverse to ascertain whether this, too, is Goetz' work. I am 85% sure that it is but want to discuss with some more collectors before finally declaring it so.

As copyright owner of the Kienast volumes, I will be assigning the next sequential K-# where Kienast left off...it will be K-718.

Frankenthal (Pfalz) SCHÜTZENMEDAILLEN, K-718
AR-Medaille 1907, auf das 22. Verbandsschießen. Av.: Brustbild des Protektors Ludwig Prinz von Bayern. Rv.: Stadtansicht. Slg. Peltzer:1069. Dm: 42,50 mm (25,10 g). vzgl. RRR



K-22 for comparison


Closer look at K-718 Reverse with PFalz City View.

[Tiffibunny]

Oh wonderful. Amazing discovery if authentic. Congradulations!

[Sir Sisu]

Cool find!

 

Looking at the details of the obverse, it seems that there is some slight alterations with the medals and the buttons of the coat. A copy? The stamped/incused "990" (silver content?) on the reverse might offer a clue as well. I could not find such a feature on the other medals on your site.

[Ian]

Cool find!

 

Looking at the details of the obverse, it seems that there is some slight alterations with the medals and the buttons of the coat. A copy? The stamped/incused "990" (silver content?) on the reverse might offer a clue as well. I could not find such a feature on the other medals on your site.

 

Firstly, that is a real beaut!! (rarity n'all aside).

 

My first reaction after that was that I recognised the reverse from somewhere, but don't quite know where. Many of the german shooting medals have similar scenes and I may just be getting my memory molecules mixed up.

 

As Sir Sisu has noted, there are small variations between the two obverses. Nothing much in themselves but added together I think there is sufficient to suspect that these medals are from different dies. Perhaps not though. perhaps a re-worked die.

 

Strange that it has lost the artists signature in the process though. That is the intriguing part.

 

Ian

[ccg]

Interesting.

[Goetzdude]

Can't be from the same die as the silver K22 is 38mm in diameter and the shooting medal is 42.5mm.

 

It is my opinion that shooting medals weren't only prestige awards but also monetary in nature...that is why the "990" is marked in the medal, to prove it's purity and value to the winner if he were to sell it for needed cash. One ounce of silver in 1907 Germany had to be worth more than it is today.

 

Regarding the lack of a signature...this, too, isn't that unusual for Goetz. More usual than it had been assumed previously at least...take a look at the original K-22 below. This piece is cast in bronze and 97.5mm in size. This was obviously made prior to the reduced, and then struck, 38mm silver piece of the same design. You'll note that there is no signature on this bronze piece, however, he added one to the smaller silver piece. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to Goetz' action but it could have been simply a condition of the commisson, to not place his signature on the medal.

 

BTW, this bronze piece also has the "KGoeTz" edge punch which is typical of many of Karl's pieces, but certainly not all of them.

 

I have both Peltzer and Steulmann German Shooting Medal reference books arriving next week. Perhaps they will be able to shed some light on this subject.

 

 

[AuldFartte]

WOW!!! What an incredible find

[ginocatt]

Hi Goetzdude. First off I don't think that the size of the medal as any bearing on its atribution to Goetz. The mother of all the medals bearing this obverse portrait of Ludwig of Bavaria would be a plasticine model sculpted by Goetz. As was his practice he would have kept this model as well as a nice sharp 'shop model' in metal. Many of these 'shop models' came up for auction in the estate of Goetz' son Guido in the early 1990's. -- Keep in mind that the original 1905 'Baker's Association' was cast very early in Goetz' German career. He had just in the same year bought out the atelier of Bavarian Court Medallist. He bought the business in no small part because of its active customeer list which included the Baker's and the Druggist Associations. He was scrambling for money like any young artist. He often worked for the Atelier of Adolf Daumiller and the medals he produced under these circumstances were not signed by Goetz and their attribution has for years gone to Daumiller - rightly so, as Goetz was in effect an employee. If you check the hundreds medals of L. Chr Lauer, M&W-Stutgartt and many other of the private mints you will find that the majority give no credit to the actual medallist but only to the firm. In the case of the 1907 Paltz 25th Shootfest medal, to say that it is in any way unusual that the die is not signed is just not the case. Goetz amy well have negotiated with the Festival Commission that they buy the dies outright. Afterall Goetz never used this exact portrait again. But it is more likely that Goetz created the medal under commission and that is all there is to it. When one commissions a medal it is up to the commissioners wether an artist signature appears or not. Perhaps in this case they wanted the a medal without the distraction of an artist's signature. As for the small 990 fine incuse punch i would have to agree with Goetzdude that this is not at all unusual and as it was punched post strike it has nothing to do with Goetz at all and is surely the result of a descision of the Festival authorities. It is correct to say that Shootfest award of precious metals were as much as monitary award as a prestige award. They are most often struck in weights equivilent to multiple kroner, talers, ducats, Reichmarks, etc. -- The obverse die portrait is the same model as on the earlier cast Baker's association medal, as is the lettering. The lettering is typical of Goetz lettering style at this period. The lettering on the reverse of the shootfest medal is by Goetz and stylistically there is no reason to believe that the lanscape is by any other hand but karl Goetz'. Goetz' many Wartburg medals are very close to this medal stylistically. But the obv portrait is still the best proof that the two medals are results of the one 1905 model. Every hair on Ludwig's head is the same as is every fold in his uniform, the same awards hang the same way on his uniform and create the same stress folds. There is no doubt in my mind that this 1907 struck silver medal is by karl Goetz. Ginocatt