Dan769 Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Explain Michael, what do dealers really think of someone with a greysheet and why? Numismatics is a small world. Everyone knows everyone. If you are a dealer, then the other dealers know who you are. If you are a "new dealer" you get known soon enough. Dealers are "people people." Collectors are "object people." A dealer will size up a person immediately and know soon whether they are really a local dealer enjoying their first ANA or a collector with a Greysheet looking for the dealer price or whatever. When two real dealers talk price, yes, the Greysheet or CDN or whatever comes out so that everyone is on the same page. Basically, however, they validate themselves to each other by a host of non-verbal communication signals. Even I can spot the collector with a Greysheet and I am just a guy who writes about the hobby. They look like they have never been on a bourse floor in their lives. No matter where they look, they never see anyone they know. Dealers are happy to meet them because they buy the stuff for "ten back of bid" that no other dealer bought in the last two days because everyone has all they need right now. Then, along comes the collector with a Greysheet, a fish with a hook in his mouth looking for a dealer with a rod and reel. Myself, I am just a guy who writes and I buy stuff that I write about and I pay whatever they ask. Sometimes I counteroffer for convenience, $25 instead of $27.50. Mostly, I do not pretend to be something I am not. If a dealer could not spot the fish, he would have been out of business a long, long time ago. Thanks Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBruce Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Perfectly acceptable, Burks. Take what you need to the show - reference books, magnifier. Some even bring their weighing scales along. Infact, if any of my customers have forgotten to bring their book along to the show and ask to see mine, then I am more than happy to lend them my copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyd Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Generally I go to a show seeking one or two specific items for which I know the prices in most grades, and since I consider myself a pretty good grader I don't worry too much. I often test the dealer by asking him what the graysheet ask/bid is on an item -- if he whips it out and gives me the range he's a guy who wants to make a sale and the guy I'm likely to do business with so the negotiations become easy. If he tells me that he doesn't have a graysheet I know he's lying and become much less inclined to conduct business with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sisu Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Have not been to any shows here as they are not that common, just auctions. But to those people bring small catalogues, notes, loupes, digital scales, etc. I guarantee sellers have books, printouts, and loads of other printed info. So why shouldn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elverno Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 Hmm.... sounds like I'm the only one with a copy of my website and database on my laptop... Most of what I buy the Krause prices don't mean a thing (and that's the coins). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostDutchman Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 This is how I see it as a dealer.......if you are going to feel more confident purchasing coins with a book .....that's awesome but books are only as good as the people who write them. I have guys bringing in books to the shop all the time. I don't mind it a bit. I take my greysheets to shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 50cents Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 <<<< sucker W/ knowledge of my series and I know prices are changing all the time....(Greysheets can't keep up) I don't claim to be someting I'm not. I work for my money and I like to spend it wisely. I collect for the fun of it and I have met alot of people that are out to rip you off, so I think it's better to have all the help you need. Take the book or make you a cheat sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjord Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 I carry a shoulderbag with copies of my a wantlist, a small notebook, the redbook, and photograde. I do not generally display photograde or the redbook in front of the dealer. Usually I'll take two walks through the bourse. once to find what's for sale and how much it's going for, then a second trip to buy. First time through I wander around with my wantlist and see what people have, maybe hand a wantlist to a dealer if they ask for it. I take notes on who has what at what price. then I go get a cup of coffee and go over my notes. I use the redbook to set an estimate for price. I then come up with a shopping list: coins i can afford to buy at a given grade. Then I refer to photograde and jot down notes next to each list item as to what defines a given grade. Then I go back and start actually buying. I generally walk up to the table with an idea in my mind and my notes as to pricing. I use the redbook as a guideline, not a rule. Prices always change. a good price is what I'll pay without feeling sorry later. I sometimes even put down a range of prices in my notes. I tend to find one or two dealers I really want to buy from, and buy several coins from them. While I do not expect it, every time the dealer has dropped from the listed price. I can also usually suss out by talking to the dealer if i'm their kind of customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conder101 Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 When I go to a show I carry: My notes on half cent varieties My notes on early date large cent varieties A copy of either the Robbie Brown or Jack Robinson sale Buress's quick guide to Middle date varieties The most recent copy of the early date collection census Federal Half Dimes 1794 - 1873 Jules Reiver's VIM (Variety Identification Manual) book on half dimes My notes on the rare varieties of capped bust dimes Reivers VIM for early quarters My attribution guide for Capped bust halves Robert Lamb's book on French notgeld coins Lamb's book on German notgeld coins Dalton & Hamer 18th century provincial token coinage Sale catalog of the Jim Noble Conder collection Waters on 18th century tokens An Index of English Conder Token Legends And of course the Slabbook I also have ready access to 19th and 20th century Krause catalogs Cash coins of Korea Chinese coins by Schojtch (sp) So I'm carriying 17 books and have access to at least four more. I wouldn't worry about a redbook or a greysheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmarotta Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 What about taking an XXX adult magazine with your Bid prices written upside down in the centerfold? Would that work? OK, you get a cart and put all the coin books you can on it and you wheel it around the floor. As if that is not annoying, you pick some hapless dealer and use your books to argue every price and every attribution. OK, OK, how about this: You take a bunch of books to a coin show and have them AUTOGRAPHED by the authors? Oh! Wait, you have them autographed by the PUBLISHER: J. T. Stanton, Myron Xenos, Dave Bowers, et al. You carry an STWC, and STAND on it to get the dealer's attention... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burks Posted October 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Hmm.... sounds like I'm the only one with a copy of my website and database on my laptop... Most of what I buy the Krause prices don't mean a thing (and that's the coins). I saw a few people using those palm pilot things at the show. From what I saw I was the only one with a Redbook. A few dealers said they would beat the Redbook price is I was interested in some of the coins so that was a positive. How can you get greysheets, even old ones? Are they published monthly or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stujoe Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Going to a bigger show this week. Don't plan on changing my normal routine mentioned early in this thread. With around 300 wants on the US side and an unknown number in my 1966 World set, I have to take something useful. This time I will double check to make sure my list is updated so I don't end up buying more duplicates. I need to also remember to take a pen and a note book. I need to remind myself about taking down specifics and table numbers as I walk around and see coins and dealers I want to give another look at. Nothing worse than not remembering where you saw that one coin you thought about buying if you had a few bucks left over at the end of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stujoe Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 I saw a few people using those palm pilot things at the show. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I did this once. It was kind of neat but I prefer paper for my needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burks Posted October 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Nothing worse than not remembering where you saw that one coin you thought about buying if you had a few bucks left over at the end of the day. Yeah I brought a small notebook to mark which table I wanted to revisit and take a closer look at. When I first got there I can of glanced over the tables to see which had what I wanted. After seeing all the tables I returned to the ones that need a closer look. Seemed to work pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjord Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Dealers are "people people." Collectors are "object people." I assume you mean that dealers care more who the buyer is (do I know you) rather than what they want? Because if you mean "people people" as in "people person", i think we would have to agree to disagree on that. When someone won't put down the paper to talk to me when I'm there to spend money, I'll pass. Maybe its because he's never met me, or maybe they've got me pegged as a kid trying to sell circulated bicentennial quarters at 3x face. .... I really just wanted to look at the large cents hiding in a case under the slabbed morgans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmarotta Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 When someone won't put down the paper to talk to me when I'm there to spend money, I'll pass. Right, there is that. There are many ways to do business and some people prefer to sit behind a counter. If they did not, they would be cold calling, knocking on doors, using the phone. So, you have to allow for some "latitudes in attitudes." Also, your complaint that they think that being a "kid" (eight? eighteen?) you are not a serious buyer, that, too, is their problem, not yours. You could make this work for yourself by asking to see the Large Cent under the slabbed Morgans. I mean, you have to assume some responsibilty because every transaction must be bilateral by definition. That said, I agree that of all the merchants in the world, coin dealers are not universally happy to meet the next customer. Oh, a bit of humor here: Your tagline "Link to My Typeset Wantlist." You mean Type Set Want List. or type set want list or perhaps Type set want list. You see, being an old editorial person from the world of print , I got the "wantlist" part, but I expected it to be nicely typeset, you know, with bolds and underlines, and matching or contrasting fonts. One easy way to do that is with Arial for the headings and Times New Roman for the body copy. I will not even get into point sizes or leading. ("led" not "leed" i.e., element Pb, a blank line inserted between lines of type.) "Typeset" -- pretty funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 50cents Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 A bit more humorist The Littleton Coin Company The Littleton Coin Company By Michael E. Marotta. There are few bargains better than the coins sold by Littleton Coin Company of Littleton, New Hampshire. ... http://www.littletoncoin.com/html/marotta.htm I like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burks Posted October 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 I love it when dealers put down what they are doing just to chat. Almost all of them did so at the show. I did have a nice long conversation with one (who I bought both my coins from) about the rising prices of U.S. coins. He was doing some grading and saw me checking out his Barber halves. Right away he came over and started to chat. Very nice person, probably why I purchased from him instead of the other guy who just looked at me and went back to his paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ætheling Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 ("led" not "leed" i.e., element Pb... Pb; I'm quite sure that's lead. Unless Americans spell it differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burks Posted October 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Pb; I'm quite sure that's lead. Unless Americans spell it differently? That is correct. Lead = Pb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDollarMan Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 I carry this little book I got from my local dealer, it has every US coin listed, you just fill in the amount under the appropriate grade you are looking for. I can see what I got and what I need and what I am willing 2 pay, in my little book. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conder101 Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 < You could make this work for yourself by asking to see the Large Cent under the slabbed Morgans. > Difficult to do if they won't acknowledge your existance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjord Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Right, there is that. There are many ways to do business and some people prefer to sit behind a counter. If they did not, they would be cold calling, knocking on doors, using the phone. So, you have to allow for some "latitudes in attitudes." Also, your complaint that they think that being a "kid" (eight? eighteen?) you are not a serious buyer, that, too, is their problem, not yours. You could make this work for yourself by asking to see the Large Cent under the slabbed Morgans. I mean, you have to assume some responsibilty because every transaction must be bilateral by definition. Why do you presume that I'm just standing there? I wait, I talk to the dealer, try to get his or her attention. I do everything short of standing on the table and discharging an air horn. Still, no assistance. It's no big deal. Someone else gets my money. As to whether it's my age or dress, it's not a complaint, just speculation as to why I get ignored. .sig file has been corrected, thank you for the pointer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedeadpoint Posted August 8, 2008 Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 I know when I find a coin show to go to I will have a backpack with my redbook, a spiral notebook and possibly some other notes/refrences. This also doubles as a way to take the coins home... without just sticking them in my pocket I think I would have these more so so I dont get Dups as Stujoe showed in his recent post. But I do this at every "show" I go to. Easier to carry all the pamplets and such you get... expeacialy at car shows. I dont beleieve anyone would have any problems with that. -Bobby I do that too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just carl Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 I go to at least 3 coin shows a month. Been doing that for a long, long time. So far I think I've seen only one person with a Red Book. Seen many with the grey sheets. I go so often I know most of the dealers at most shows. If they have a coin store in the area, I visit them also. People that have such price guides are just fooling themselves. Coin shows are basically flea markets for coins. Coin prices are very flexible with most dealers. If a dealer has a price on a coin of say $10, he knows exactly just how little he will go down if asked. Regardless of any publication a person may be carrying, the price of a coin is what the dealer is willing to sell it for. You could pull out any price guide you want and it means nothing to a dealer if he wants $10 for a coin, that is what he will ask and if you want that coin, that is what you'll pay. He may say $12 and expects the $10 so no price guide on Earth will change that. And as to back packs, if the coin shows is really crowded, I've seen security people tell people with back packs to either put it in thier car or just leave. Nothing like being hit with a back back over and over and over as someone weaves through crowded aisles. I too have mentioned to security about being bumped continuously from a back pack and the person was told to get rid of it or leave. My suggestion is to just make a list of what you need, want or a possible. Look up anywhere you want for possible highest and lowest prices and just take that. If any coin show you go to is fairly large, someone will have a book, magazine or something with prices if you want to check something. But to carry most price guides, is a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.