some more newps...

[oregoncoin]

Edited to add big pics... also, I should have clarified that I already have these coins, and I guess anything is possible, but I'm pretty sure they're all authentic.

 

I was stoked to get this 1718 altyn. It looks right to me, what say you guys? What do y'all think a coin like this is worth?

 

 

 

WTF is this? LOL!

 

 

 

A poor-man's 1762 10k...

[alexbq2]

I'm stoked to get this 1718 altyn. It looks right to me, what say you guys?

 

 

 

WTF is this? LOL!

 

 

 

A poor-man's 1762 10k...

 

WOW! Nice coins, and I really like the WTF item!!!

[gxseries]

I like the wtf item as well - new way of presenting old designs. Maybe I should do that to one of the crappy 2 kopek coin and make it into a jewellery.

 

The poor man 10 kopek is pretty nice as well - don't think you can get it any neater without costing you a leg. Go get the altyn if it's priced reasonably. Nevertheless all of them are very nice.

[bobh]

I'm stoked to get this 1718 altyn. It looks right to me, what say you guys?

[images snipped]

 

The first two, yes, definitely (assuming that the Altyn is not fake, of course)!

 

But I've NEVER seen any MM pyataks which look so clean and crisp, especially for an overstruck coin. This makes me very suspicious, especially since there was recently a very clever fake Avesta pyatak posted a few months ago by sigistenz here: False Avesta 5 kopek

 

Can you post larger pictures of it, please?

[oregoncoin]

The first two, yes, definitely (assuming that the Altyn is not fake, of course)!

 

But I've NEVER seen any MM pyataks which look so clean and crisp, especially for an overstruck coin. This makes me very suspicious, especially since there was recently a very clever fake Avesta pyatak posted a few months ago by sigistenz here: False Avesta 5 kopek

 

Can you post larger pictures of it, please?

 

Larger pics posted. What do you think? Other than the piatak being so fresh and so clean, is there anything else that looks bad to you? Does anything about the altyn look off to you?

[oregoncoin]

I like the wtf item as well - new way of presenting old designs. Maybe I should do that to one of the crappy 2 kopek coin and make it into a jewellery.

 

The poor man 10 kopek is pretty nice as well - don't think you can get it any neater without costing you a leg. Go get the altyn if it's priced reasonably. Nevertheless all of them are very nice.

 

Thanks! It wasn't very clear in my initial post, but I already took the plunge on all these (and a lot more that I haven't posted). I'm really curious what do you think the altyn and the poor man's 10 should cost? Don't worry, even if you said $5 each, I wouldn't be offended.

 

Regarding the "WTF two kopek" do you have any idea what it might be? I was thinking maybe a coal token or something like that, maybe made and used outside Russia, in Sweden, Finland, the Baltics, or Germany?

[oregoncoin]

WOW! Nice coins, and I really like the WTF item!!!

 

Oh, go on...

 

[bobh]

Other than the piatak being so fresh and so clean, is there anything else that looks bad to you?

 

Well, now that I can see more detail, it looks more "believeable". I assume that the date is 1767 (hard to read)?

 

However, I think it is strange that the obverse shows so many details from the undercoin and the reverse only the faintest glimpse of a star. Hard to explain from a mechanical point of view -- the pressure on each side should be the same during the striking. And the surfaces are definitely atypical for these; even the 5 kopeck coins in the Brekke sale (WWCC 1993) were not nearly as nice-looking.

 

Also, I don't like the looks of the letter "Я" in ДЕСЯТЬ from the undercoin. It doesn't look like any of the other varieties in Bitkin (nor Brekke) which show a much narrower top and a more slanted lower left leg to the letter. The "Я" does look like the one on some of the novodel 10 kopeck coins of 1761; but then we wouldn't be looking at one of those underneath a 1767-MM...

 

I'm definitely no expert on such matters, but I would have it examined by someone who is before spending a lot of money on it. Take a look here and let us know if you find one that looks anywhere like yours: http://m-dv.ru/catalog/king,14/coins.html

 

Does anything about the altyn look off to you?

I am totally ignorant when it comes to these!

[bobh]

WTF is this? LOL!

[images snipped]

 

Could it have been some kind of gambling or bordell token? Obviously, the initials in Latin characters would indicate that the alterations were done outside of Russia; the numbers could be for a room number. Or would the year 1839 have any special significance?

[oregoncoin]

Well, now that I can see more detail, it looks more "believeable". I assume that the date is 1767 (hard to read)?

 

However, I think it is strange that the obverse shows so many details from the undercoin and the reverse only the faintest glimpse of a star. Hard to explain from a mechanical point of view -- the pressure on each side should be the same during the striking. And the surfaces are definitely atypical for these; even the 5 kopeck coins in the Brekke sale (WWCC 1993) were not nearly as nice-looking.

 

Also, I don't like the looks of the letter "Я" in ДЕСЯТЬ from the undercoin. It doesn't look like any of the other varieties in Bitkin which show a much narrower top and a more slanted lower left leg to the letter.

 

I'm definitely no expert on such matters, but I would have it examined by someone who is before spending a lot of money on it. Take a look here and let us know if you find one that looks anywhere like yours: http://m-dv.ru/catalog/king,14/coins.html

 

 

I am totally ignorant when it comes to these!

 

Ahhh, I see what you mean, now; that "Я" is fishy. Very fishy... I don't like the looks of Я. Would anyone be willing to take this coin from me, so that my collection isn't cursed with it any longer?

[one-kuna]

OMG, 5 kopek looks to me as 1766 MM BTW

[squirrel]

5 kopeck looks like 1766 to my now aching eyeballs. Luckily, my new flat led monitor is easy to turn upside down. very pretty coin!

3 kopeck looks OK

 

2 kopeck wtf no clue.

[bobh]

Ahhh, I see what you mean, now; that "Я" is fishy. Very fishy... I don't like the looks of Я. Would anyone be willing to take this coin from me, so that my collection isn't cursed with it any longer?

So you don't believe that there is the slightest possibility that this could be a clever fake?

[one-kuna]

in my opinion, 5 kopek 1766 MM can be from $50 up to $85 range

[one-kuna]

I was stoked to get this 1718 altyn. It looks right to me, what say you guys? What do y'all think a coin like this is worth?

BTW altyn look very much circulated some can say that it is genuine LOL however I was not able to find a similar in GM - starting from horseman's coat, need further study and more time to spend, also can be perfectly genuine as well after all research

[bobh]

in my opinion, 5 kopek 1766 MM can be from $50 up to $85 range

And this one?

 

Gorny & Mosch sale #193, lot 5207

 

 

Hammer price: 1,000 €

 

Of course, I was assuming that the date was 1767, which would have been even more expensive.

 

The above (same) coin is listed several times on this page, BTW:

http://m-dv.ru/catalog/id,3147/all-prohod.html

[one-kuna]

OMG, this price is just for idiots, and it does not mean anything; would you pay so much for red 5 kop 1766 MM ? I would't, LOL

[gxseries]

Maybe it's time for me to sell this if the price is that ridiciously high:

 

[one-kuna]

Maybe it's time for me to sell this if the price is that ridiciously high:

 

very nice one and yellow in spite of red one at Gorny

[sigistenz]

So you don't believe that there is the slightest possibility that this could be a clever fake?

Bob, I have known this very coin, a 5kop1766MM, for more than 20 years. It is perfectly OK

Sigi

[alexbq2]

BTW altyn look very much circulated some can say that it is genuine LOL however I was not able to find a similar in GM - starting from horseman's coat, need further study and more time to spend, also can be perfectly genuine as well after all research

 

I think there's a great die variety for these altyns.

[one-kuna]

I think there's a great die variety for these altyns.

there are

[bobh]

Although there are still some things I do not understand about the 5k 1766-MM discussed here, I am perfectly willing to concede to sigistenz, who knows much more about these coins than I do and whose opinion I greatly respect, if he says that this coin is genuine.

 

In the meantime, I have found an image in Yaroslav Adrianov's catalog (see p. 69) which most closely matches the 10k undercoin of this one WRT the letter "Я" on the obverse:

 

 

This would correspond to Brekke 17 or Bitkin 17. I think that there must have been more letter punches in use than those depicted in each catalog, plus the inevitable distortion which would occur upon overstriking.

 

However, I still have reservations concerning the overall appearance of the surfaces and the degree of flattening of the undercoin devices which appears surprisingly different upon comparison of the two sides. How is it possible??

[gxseries]

There had to be a fair number of 1762 dies as temporary mints were set up to overstrike a mass number of coins only to be overstruck again next year. I don't have my references with me so I can be totally out but weren't temporary mints set up at Arkhangelsk and other places? I just don't remember the names...

[oregoncoin]

Although there are still some things I do not understand about the 5k 1766-MM discussed here, I am perfectly willing to concede to sigistenz, who knows much more about these coins than I do and whose opinion I greatly respect, if he says that this coin is genuine.

 

In the meantime, I have found an image in Yaroslav Adrianov's catalog (see p. 69) which most closely matches the 10k undercoin of this one WRT the letter "Я" on the obverse:

 

 

This would correspond to Brekke 17 or Bitkin 17. I think that there must have been more letter punches in use than those depicted in each catalog, plus the inevitable distortion which would occur upon overstriking.

 

However, I still have reservations concerning the overall appearance of the surfaces and the degree of flattening of the undercoin devices which appears surprisingly different upon comparison of the two sides. How is it possible??

 

if you look close, you can see quite a bit of the 10k on both sides - i'll post a few more pics a little later