Loyal Citizen Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 ... When Alex called me and I explained the situation to him (without identifying the names), he agreed that the names should remain confidential, unless a party to the transaction comes in and confirms the story. That is correct. It would be too insulting to the public to start discussing the names of people who may have or may have not known the underlying story. BTW, I did not ask for the names as I do not really see the reason to know them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 BKB thank you for telling us this story. I am curious to know the players, but I can live without it. Here's what bother's me though. We have this coin, that does have some peculiarities to it, and one-kuna spotted them, but it did not seem to be enough to generally excite the public opinion against it. Now this story comes out, that is very intriguing, and plausible, and practically damn's kopeikin's coin. However, we don't actually have any direct or indirect evidence that links this coin to the story. And the story itself, if I understood correctly, is not a first hand account. Most inconveniently, the thread that allegedly held the original discussion of such coin (from 2 years ago) is also gone. We have a number of people here, who monitor Russian forums. Does anyone recall anything about that thread? Did anyone save a picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 1........it did not seem to be enough to generally excite the public opinion against it....... 2.......the thread that allegedly held the original discussion of such coin (from 2 years ago) is also gone....... 3.......We have a number of people here, who monitor Russian forums. Does anyone recall anything about that thread? Did anyone save a picture?....... 1. does three-four persons represent a public opinion ? 2. as one of an active member of that forum since 2007 you cannot recall that discussion ? 3. is this question is just to make sure that no one has an evidence of that thread ? *straight answers would be very appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 1. does three-four persons represent a public opinion ? 2. as one of an active member of that forum since 2007 you cannot recall that discussion ? 3. is this question is just to make sure that no one has an evidence of that thread ? *straight answers would be very appreciated 1. I think there was more than 4 people, but I the statement was general. 2. No I do not, but I could have missed it. 3. The opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 It would be nice for other people that isn't in other forum to have more information. I'm quite skeptical over the authenticity but will be interested to learn more about this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 2. No I do not, but I could have missed it. Does it sound strange to you: yes or no ? The thread for 1804 EM 5 kopeks in that russian forum found all participans identifying Russian 1804 EM 5 copper kopeks as a forgery, however, a moderator and yourself were arguing that it is genuine coin, as a result, the whole thread was deleted by the same moderator ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 BKB, I don't know what your purpose was in telling the story other than reporting an interesting occurrence. And it was interesting. Unfortunately, what this story has accomplished is to put a cloud on the reputation of ALL the NY and NJ dealers. I am not a dealer and am barely a collector. My knowledge is very limited... Dear Maya, a month or few ago, you responded to one of this forum thread that, what is wrong on collecting of counterfeit coins for yourself as you do, now, what is the purpose for you as a collector of countefiet coins to protect a dealer's reputation if you are not specializing in genuine coins ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Does it sound strange to you: yes or no ? The thread for 1804 EM 5 kopeks in that russian forum found all participans identifying Russian 1804 EM 5 copper kopeks as a forgery, however, a moderator and yourself were arguing that it is genuine coin, as a result, the whole thread was deleted by the same moderator ? I'm not sure what you are talking about. I was referring to the thread from 2 years ago. I post very little on Russian forums, and do not recall seeing this thread let along arguing pro anything! If you are talking about the post you made on coins.su, it is alive and healthy, and anyone can still view it. It was edited by the moderator because of some comment that had nothing to do with this coin. I did participate in that post, but as anyone can see, I did not make any arguments, but tried to provide some background information. http://coins.su/forum/index.php?showtopic=43484 My posts there are under XELA2 (which is just Alex backwards) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 I was referring to the thread from 2 years ago. I post very little on Russian forums, and do not recall seeing this thread let along arguing pro anything! i did not mean coins.su anyway does it sound to you strange that you are very ACTIVE on rare forum since 2007 and you do not remember that thread for fake 1804 EM 5 kopeks - and it was deleted ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 i did not mean coins.su anyway does it sound to you strange that you are very ACTIVE on rare forum since 2007 and you do not remember that thread for fake 1804 EM 5 kopeks - and it was deleted ? What's rare forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 What's rare forum? arn't you an active member of rare.ru forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Citizen Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 arn't you an active member of rare.ru forum Sounds like interrogation, really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Sounds like interrogation, really preliminary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 arn't you an active member of rare.ru forum No. I'm a member on 3 russian forums, rare.ru is not one of them. I'm not very active either, as I find typing in Russian extremely tedious. I think you've got things confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 No. I'm a member on 3 russian forums, rare.ru is not one of them. I'm not very active either, as I find typing in Russian extremely tedious. I think you've got things confused. are you a member of ANA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 are you a member of ANA Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Hey looks like I am a member on rare.su! # Username Joined Posts Rank Message E-mail Website 1 alexb Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:25 am 0 Читатель I think I joined to look at some post, and then forgot about it Although still not the member you were thinking of one-kuna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 All coins were returned to the original very well known dealer, who refunded the money without any argument. Wonder what happened to those "coins" next. This thread may or may not explain it. I hope that the guys that returned these coins could post here, confirm the story and identify the originator. What are we to infer from this statement? If you have become more careful and less trustworthy as a result of reading this story, I have done more good than the last 10,000 posts identifying ebay fakes for you guys. If you hesitate and think twice, notwithstanding who the seller is, you have just become wiser and, as a result, richer. It would be unfair to name names, because it is very possible that no party to the transaction actually knew that the coins were fake when they sold them. Think of the damage the name naming would do to these guys. The fact that they unknowingly had a group of fakes in their possession does not make them fake pusher,now, does it? When Alex called me and I explained the situation to him (without identifying the names), he agreed that the names should remain confidential, unless a party to the transaction comes in and confirms the story. I have always been very careful in what I purchase, and am very trustworthy if not necessarily blindly trusting. But a lot of the people who participate in this forum have been truly very helpful to me since I first joined several years ago and I would be very unhappy, and offended on their behalf, to have suspicion thrown upon them. I do agree with you that naming names may be counter indicated. Perhaps it was the phrasing of your initial post that appeared to me to be a bit accusatory. If I am wrong I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vit986 Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 I would like to confirm again as I said in my post #32 in this thread. I did personally bought 10 coins 1804 EM 5 kopek from NJ diler. As authentic pieces. As I explain to WCO and Alexbq2 in the following thread deleted by admin a few days ago (I’m sorry for repeating myself) the coins were sold as a lot and quite cheap even for that time, 2-3 years ago. Before trying to resell them on eBay I sent 2 of the coins to PCGS and NGC. I did not found it suspicious than that all of them look more or less the same and quite crooked (as I pointed in my comments here) they were bought from the reputable dealer, after all! They were struck, sounded well and the quantity was not an issue, since I had similar deals before. All of them were the same date. I received them back as "no decision" and "not genuine" respectively. Than I returned the lot to the dealer in NJ with the stickers and got my money back no questions asked. I was told at the time, that more coins of this type were sold to the other dealers as well. Than I've seen them on the other forums being discussed. By the people why are participating in this forum too. I will not make any logical conclusions here… As I said before - copper is not my topic of interest but I did recognize this coin and posted my modest opinion when I recalled my rather unpleasant experience… I would kindly ask Alexbq and WCO please DO NOT answer on my posts anymore. Same request I had on the other forums for the same gentleman. I will ignore your comments. Sorry about that. I have my limits. Mister WCO knows that some fakes are very convincing from the pictures and he has posted himself some excellent examples on the Russian-speaking forum were he is a moderator. I find it quite strange that he is repeatedly asking private information from the members here and there. One more thing. I do respect privacy of my clients. Sellers or buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 So I'm not entirely sure what's going on here at this point. From what I can tell WCO and I conspired to sell Kopeikin his coin? And we new it to be fake? I hope it is clear to everyone that this story does not pan out. 1) I do not know WCO. 2) I was not involved in any conversation on rare.su, ever (literally ). You can look on that forum under members. I registered in 2009 and have 0 posts. http://www.rare.su/memberlist.php?mode=searchuser 3) I am a collector, not a dealer. I have sold very few coins, just duplicates from my collection, none were fake. 4) I can prove #3 by posting here photos of the fake coin that I bought from Vit986 on top of a recent newspaper. The coin is still in my possession and is not going on eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Alexbq2, I opened a thread on rare.su. May be you want "to get involved" and show fake coin sold by vit986 (Andrew on that forum). WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 vit986 on coinpeople.com forum also known as vitaminshop986 on e-bay also known as Andrew on rare.su forum was expelled (banned) from forum rare.su. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 vit986 on coinpeople.com forumalso known as vitaminshop986 on e-bay also known as Andrew on rare.su forum was expelled (banned) from forum rare.su. banned by who, by you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vit986 Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 vit986 on coinpeople.com forumalso known as vitaminshop986 on e-bay also known as Andrew on rare.su forum was expelled (banned) from forum rare.su. And who would doubt that... . You are the moderator there. And you can't handle the truth... I hope enough people read the thread there. You publicly acknowledge selling fakes... Only a few people who are caring of your personal proctology issues and how to use the tongue are left there anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shtirlic Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 I'm actually failing to follow your discussion: the coin which is initally posted has nothing to do with a line of fakes which appears 2-3 years ago and were discussed in whole runet Please explain if you make any link between two issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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