STEVE MOULDING Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Rarity of the 5 kopeks 1837 EM FX Petrov ( ) pls help -- "0" , while 1837 cm is 50 kop. Yusupov ( ) pls help -- cannot help until you deliver what you promised :-) Adrianov ( ) pls help -- do not know what it is in his new book, but his personal opinion voiced in the discussion was that the coin is common, and not even scarce. Yusupov - Scarce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Yusupov - Scarce Yusupov what edition - I would consider the latest third edition ( issued as 2 volumes ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Wanted to add this -- In original Adrianov's book this coin is valued just like the other mint marks at 30 rubles, except the one with kt/fx, which is valued double at 60 rubles. I do not find that re-punched mark very rare, for I have seen more of those than of em-fx's. But, then, Adrianov's books are nothing but his personal catalog containing only his personal observations. He is not going to museums or other sources. As to Yusupov's book -- is there info that rarities changed between the editions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Yusupov what edition - I would consider the latest third edition ( issued as 2 volumes ) 1995 I actually very rarely use Yusupov, so haven't got the third edition. I'd be surprised if the rarity was different but maybe somebody can tell us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 1995 I actually very rarely use Yusupov, so haven't got the third edition. I'd be surprised if the rarity was different but maybe somebody can tell us. Steve, what is the reason you do not use Yusupov? Does it provide any additional variants as compared to GM, Uzd, Bitkin etc.? Reason for Q is that I am pondering purchasing Yusupov book, but if it has the same info as the other books that I already have, I will pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Steve, what is the reason you do not use Yusupov? Does it provide any additional variants as compared to GM, Uzd, Bitkin etc.? Reason for Q is that I am pondering purchasing Yusupov book, but if it has the same info as the other books that I already have, I will pass. It's very good for enumerating fine die differences. Great for berry and leaf counters, but that's a level of detail I rarely get into (the 1797 Cipher narrow notwithstanding). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Wanted to add this -- In original Adrianov's book this coin is valued just like the other mint marks at 30 rubles, except the one with kt/fx, which is valued double at 60 rubles. I do not find that re-punched mark very rare, for I have seen more of those than of em-fx's. But, then, Adrianov's books are nothing but his personal catalog containing only his personal observations. He is not going to museums or other sources. As to Yusupov's book -- is there info that rarities changed between the editions? The latest edition of Adrianov book on russian copper coins of course is not a pattern and has a lot of critics... Adrianov called Ilyin "simpleton", because Ilyin overpriced the 1837 EM FX piatak... I don't like Adrianov because he thinks he is a russian Brekke there in Russia, which I told him and he did not really object much on it...What I like Adrianov is that he said that 5 rubles is too much for this piatak but 1-2 rubles can be a good shot. BRAVO ! Finally its price is on right range... I just recalled that I was doing some projects for JRNS and was scrolling old auction catalogs and guess what - some estimate / realized prices had 2 inverted from 5 or opposite - 5 inverted from 2... here we go... take a deep breath... it can be printed matter or just little mistake and Ilyin meant 2 rubles for 1837 EM FX piatak but somehow it was printed 5 in his catalog I like this version with 2 rubles estimate better than anyone else and I will use it as a working price for this copper ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Yusupov what edition - I would consider the latest third edition ( issued as 2 volumes ) One-Kuna, as a collector of variants (counting feathers, etc.), I am very interested in the Yusupov book. Could you please give the authors full name and the title of the book? Where could I get it? Thank you, Sigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Most of these were dug up and remained in Russia. They never hit the western market and ebay. That is why there are none on ebay right now. Thus, i think, data on these should be collected from sources like molotok, conros, but mostly from diggers, coin clubs and local russian markets, and these later sources are not available to us. Sounds reasonable. I haven't seen too many on eBay. I got this one from there: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 One-Kuna, as a collector of variants (counting feathers, etc.), I am very interested in the Yusupov book. Could you please give the authors full name and the title of the book? Where could I get it? Thank you, Sigi Б.С.Юсупов " Монеты Российской империи" Том 1 1699-1725, Казань 2003 г., 288 стр. Том 2 1725-1801, Казань 2004 г., 312 стр. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Sounds reasonable. I haven't seen too many on eBay. I got this one from there: 2 rubles by Ilyin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Should rather be: 2 rubles one-kuna, not Illin (unless I am missing something) I wonder how much Blank's specimen sold for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Should rather be: 2 rubles one-kuna, not Illin (unless I am missing something) I wonder how much Blank's specimen sold for... 2 rubles by COINPEOPLE russian forum to be exact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Should rather be: 2 rubles one-kuna, not Illin (unless I am missing something) I wonder how much Blank's specimen sold for... Blank Collection part II, 1907 994. 5 kopeks 1837 EM FX R1, condition - fine - realized - .80 kopeks 995. 5 kopeks 1837 EM FX R1, date narrow, condition - very fine - realized - 1 ruble 90 kopeks 996. 5 kopeks 1837 EM FX R1, date wider, condition - very fine - 2 rubles 20 kopeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 so, we know what it was worth in VF condition. Pretty far from the 5 ruble mark and much closer to coinpeople's 2 ruble Thus, 2 ruble it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 so, we know what it was worth in VF condition. Pretty far from the 5 ruble mark and much closer to coinpeople's 2 ruble Thus, 2 ruble it is. may be its better review (update) prices in Ilyin catalog than compose new one as someone proposed earlier over here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 may be its better review (update) prices in Ilyin catalog than compose new one as someone proposed earlier over here... I do not remember anyone proposing to do a price list... I think GX wanted to do a picture catalog with our coins based on Uzdenikov. I proposed to use Illin as basis, and not Uzdenikov and to try to illustrate as many varieties as possible. That is where it died. I do not think we can do any meaningful current price list or update rarities or prices in Illin. Cannot use auction sales, for there is no honor left, it seems. From what I hear and even witnessed myself, auction houses are working very close with dealers to drive those prices up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Cannot use auction sales, for there is no honor left, it seems. From what I hear and even witnessed myself, auction houses are working very close with dealers to drive those prices up. Just curious, would those be the European auction houses, or the American Aution houses specializing in Russian material? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Just curious, would those be the European auction houses, or the American Aution houses specializing in Russian material? both including Russia itself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I do not remember anyone proposing to do a price list... I think GX wanted to do a picture catalog with our coins based on Uzdenikov. I proposed to use Illin as basis, and not Uzdenikov and to try to illustrate as many varieties as possible. That is where it died. I do not think we can do any meaningful current price list or update rarities or prices in Illin. Cannot use auction sales, for there is no honor left, it seems. From what I hear and even witnessed myself, auction houses are working very close with dealers to drive those prices up. there got to be a way to resist their coalition, best to your knowledge and experience what do you think it can be??? remember - if you have an idea - they will read it too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 there got to be a way to resist their coalition, best to your knowledge and experience what do you think it can be???remember - if you have an idea - they will read it too... stop bidding? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RARENUM Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 One-Kuna, as a collector of variants (counting feathers, etc.), I am very interested in the Yusupov book. Could you please give the authors full name and the title of the book? Where could I get it? Thank you, Sigi You can find Yusupov 1st and 2nd Edition link: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/COINS-MOHET-CA...;LH_TitleDesc=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 You can find Yusupov 1st and 2nd Edition link: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/COINS-MOHET-CA...;LH_TitleDesc=1 since there is a thirrd edition i would take 1st and 2nd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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