WCO Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 ...... when was talking about ms65 $1800 was thinking about 1899 dates... ... 1899-EB 5 Rub. in MS-65 should be way more than $1800 and 1899-FZ 5 Rub. way less. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 1899-EB 5 Rub. in MS-65 should be way more than $1800 and 1899-FZ 5 Rub. way less. WCO not really "way to much" but possible more, since today's market is really crazy. I told approximetly price. after we saw that 1910 ms65 10 ruble sold out for $4300 ... anything is possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 wrong info Mister Chebirgen....but still prices are crazy for this regular date. P.S yes, sometimes happens with everybody.. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=250191719449 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=150210179154 So, is there gonna be any editing further in your messages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaE Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 By the way, I wouldn't be so surprised about 1911 10 Roubles. It's much more rare in Mintstate than 1910, look at NGC report. - 1910 EB RUSSIA 10R MS62: 6 MS63: 14 MS64: 19 MS65: 125 MS66: 3 1911 EB RUSSIA 10R MS61: 7 MS62: 14 MS63: 9 MS64: 3 MS66: 1 So $1500 for MS-63 1911 it's not a bad deal, you can sell it for 2k pretty easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHV Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 By the way, I wouldn't be so surprised about 1911 10 Roubles. It's much more rare in Mintstate than 1910, look at NGC report.- 1910 EB RUSSIA 10R MS62: 6 MS63: 14 MS64: 19 MS65: 125 MS66: 3 1911 EB RUSSIA 10R MS61: 7 MS62: 14 MS63: 9 MS64: 3 MS66: 1 So $1500 for MS-63 1911 it's not a bad deal, you can sell it for 2k pretty easily. hi. 1911 date not really scarce as we can see, its not really popular in the Russian, and NGC's record doen't means anything at this point. This date was minted in Soviet period (as most people know) 1910 yes, scarce date, but again, to pay such of amount of money that we noticed from last action, its kind of crazy. Its still 10 rubles. ThankYou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaE Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I was bidding on 1910 and my bid was $2600, so if anyone has one in MS-65, I would be happy to pay this amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHV Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I was bidding on 1910 and my bid was $2600, so if anyone has one in MS-65, I would be happy to pay this amount. Your offer is kind of low Goldberg sold out same coin for $3800, last week one sold out on e-bay for $4300, there is one more coming up..... probably won't go that much high, but defenetly more than $2600 If you ask me I won't pay more than 3k.... its some kind of "virus" infected people to pay 4k+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 hi. 1911 date not really scarce as we can see, its not really popular in the Russian, and NGC's record doen't means anything at this point. This date was minted in Soviet period (as most people know) 1910 yes, scarce date, but again, to pay such of amount of money that we noticed from last action, its kind of crazy. Its still 10 rubles. ThankYou. The date is scarce for 5 Rouble only. 10 Rouble 1911 is not scarce at all due to the minting in Soviet period. But there are bunch of people on the market right now who heard that you can make a lot of money on Russian coins, they purchased probably Uzdenikov and saw that this coin is scarce. The same situation with Rouble 1915. There are bunch of them on the market but official minted quantity is only about 5000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHV Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 The date is scarce for 5 Rouble only. 10 Rouble 1911 is not scarce at all due to the minting in Soviet period. But there are bunch of people on the market right now who heard that you can make a lot of money on Russian coins, they purchased probably Uzdenikov and saw that this coin is scarce. The same situation with Rouble 1915. There are bunch of them on the market but official minted quantity is only about 5000. Yes, That's what I'm talking about that 1911 10 rubles very common coin in Russia, even 1904 priced higher than 1911. About 1915 Ruble also, you right its was minted during Soviet period, and some people pay high amount of greens for this date. GHV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted March 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I was bidding on 1910 and my bid was $2600, so if anyone has one in MS-65, I would be happy to pay this amount. Your offer is kind of low Goldberg sold out same coin for $3800, last week one sold out on e-bay for $4300, there is one more coming up..... probably won't go that much high, but defenetly more than $2600 If you ask me I won't pay more than 3k.... its some kind of "virus" infected people to pay 4k+ There was one sold on 15 November 2007 at Jim Elmen's WWC auction (lot #447) which sold for about $2500, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted March 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Cheburgen, I have 1901-AR 5 Rubles NGC MS-62 for $1,350. http://www.worldcoinsonline.com/page.php?p...p;itemid=000211 I would pay more than that for your MS-65 coin. Want to sell? After all there were only seven 1901-AR 5 Rubles graded by NGC in all MS grades (VS to over 3000 1901-FZ 5 Rubles). Comparable to other 5 Rubles 1901-AR in MS grades appears to be much scarcer than popular 1909 5 Rubles. 1899-EB becomes very scarce in MS grades and should have adequate premium. Regards, WCO Actually, 5 roubles 1901-AR is extremely scarce in all grades ... RW Julian published the figures in an older issue of the "Journal of the Russian Numismatic Society" -- I forgot which one, though (maybe he will tell us?) It is MUCH rarer than the 10 roubles 1901-AR which is also scarce. I wonder how accurate the NGC population report is ... there are very many old thick NGC slabs with 1901 five roubles inside which have no indication of the mintmaster on the slab! If I had the money, I think I would have bought all of these I could find and cracked them out, just to find a couple of nice 1901-AR ones! However, it is still possible to find them for much less (unslabbed, but very nice -- at least AU or low-grade MS): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=180219147267 I needed this to replace the one I have which is only VF, so stay tuned for an offering coming soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Actually, 5 roubles 1901-AR is extremely scarce in all grades ... RW Julian published the figures in an older issue of the "Journal of the Russian Numismatic Society" -- I forgot which one, though (maybe he will tell us?) It is MUCH rarer than the 10 roubles 1901-AR which is also scarce. I wonder how accurate the NGC population report is ... there are very many old thick NGC slabs with 1901 five roubles inside which have no indication of the mintmaster on the slab! If I had the money, I think I would have bought all of these I could find and cracked them out, just to find a couple of nice 1901-AR ones! However, it is still possible to find them for much less (unslabbed, but very nice -- at least AU or low-grade MS): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=180219147267 I needed this to replace the one I have which is only VF, so stay tuned for an offering coming soon! bobh, according to WCO, he is personally cracked about 150 old NGC slabs without the designation of mintmaster and did not find any AP. Congratulations on your purchase. BTW, it is still not very well understood why 5 rouble AP is scarcer than 10 Rouble AP (not sure if this is correct). According to the mint records in 1901 it was issued 2377021 10 Rouble coins and 7500022 5 Rouble coins (taken from Uzdenikov). So it seems to me that the most 10 Rouble coins was issued under AP and way less 5 Rouble coins under AP. Any thoughts about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 bobh, according to WCO, he is personally cracked about 150 old NGC slabs without the designation of mintmaster and did not find any AP. Congratulations on your purchase. BTW, it is still not very well understood why 5 rouble AP is scarcer than 10 Rouble AP (not sure if this is correct). According to the mint records in 1901 it was issued 2377021 10 Rouble coins and 7500022 5 Rouble coins (taken from Uzdenikov). So it seems to me that the most 10 Rouble coins was issued under AP and way less 5 Rouble coins under AP. Any thoughts about it? There were no "AR" 1901 5 Rubles among old NGC slabs. All 1901 5 Rubles that I dealt with turned out to be "FZ", they all are most likely from single source: - Norwegian hoard. There is no need to "crack a slab" to find out who was the mintmaster, just send it to NGC and they will re-slab and add mintmaster's initials on the label. It's free or $5 per coin. bobh, congratulations on buying 1901-AR, if Unc. it's very cheap. Seller had to highlight that he is selling a scarce coin, but he did not so the price was very cheap. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted March 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 bobh, according to WCO, he is personally cracked about 150 old NGC slabs without the designation of mintmaster and did not find any AP. Congratulations on your purchase. Thanks! BTW, it is still not very well understood why 5 rouble AP is scarcer than 10 Rouble AP (not sure if this is correct). According to the mint records in 1901 it was issued 2377021 10 Rouble coins and 7500022 5 Rouble coins (taken from Uzdenikov). So it seems to me that the most 10 Rouble coins was issued under AP and way less 5 Rouble coins under AP. Any thoughts about it? Well, I suppose we shall never know for sure. The only thing I remember -- I think RW Julian told me -- is that Alexander Redko only started work at the Russian Imperial Mint late in the year 1901 ("nomen est omen" -- the only difference between the Russian word for "rare" (редко) and the name (Редько) is the little "мягкий знак" or soft sign. ) So it is possible that the 10 rouble coins were minted a little later than the 5 rouble coins giving a larger proportion of the 10 rouble coins to the later mintmaster. Another possibility is that many planchets for 5 roubles were prepared with the initials (AR), but either not used until later years or else struck with the year 1901 and melted down (for whatever reason). (OT ... of course, the little "мягкий знак" sometimes makes a big difference in the meaning of a word ... e.g., "брат" = brother, and "брать" = to take. However, the word "деньга" existed first as "денга", as we know from looking at 18th century coins). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Julian Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Actually, 5 roubles 1901-AR is extremely scarce in all grades ... RW Julian published the figures in an older issue of the "Journal of the Russian Numismatic Society" -- I forgot which one, though (maybe he will tell us?) It is MUCH rarer than the 10 roubles 1901-AR which is also scarce. The last numbers I can find were in RNS Journal 83 (winter 2006–2007). Out of 55 1901 5 rouble pieces found in the Conros auctions to that time, 53 were FZ and only 2 were AR. RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Julian Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 bobh, according to WCO, he is personally cracked about 150 old NGC slabs without the designation of mintmaster and did not find any AP. Congratulations on your purchase. BTW, it is still not very well understood why 5 rouble AP is scarcer than 10 Rouble AP (not sure if this is correct). According to the mint records in 1901 it was issued 2377021 10 Rouble coins and 7500022 5 Rouble coins (taken from Uzdenikov). So it seems to me that the most 10 Rouble coins was issued under AP and way less 5 Rouble coins under AP. Any thoughts about it? Unfortunately the figures you quote are for fiscal years, not calendar years. The St. Petersburg Mint did not publish calendar-year figures during this era. RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted March 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 bobh, congratulations on buying 1901-AR, if Unc. it's very cheap. Seller had to highlight that he is selling a scarce coin, but he did not so the price was very cheap. Thanks! If I hadn't asked the seller which mintmaster it was, nobody would have known! Fortunately (for me, that is) the "Questions & Answers" are posted at the bottom of the auction web page. So everyone else who had already bid, probably didn't go down there to look. I always look before bidding because sometimes you find useful stuff there. Still, I was really worried that after he posted my question and the answer, that the price would go sky high. Guess I was lucky! There were no "AR" 1901 5 Rubles among old NGC slabs. All 1901 5 Rubles that I dealt with turned out to be "FZ", they all are most likely from single source: - Norwegian hoard. There is no need to "crack a slab" to find out who was the mintmaster, just send it to NGC and they will re-slab and add mintmaster's initials on the label. It's free or $5 per coin. WCO I don't know much about the Norwegian hoard -- however, statistically speaking, one would have expected to find one or two among 150 coins. Is that true, that you cracked out 150 of these? I guess I'm not the only one with that idea, although I don't have the means to try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 ... Is that true, that you cracked out 150 of these? I guess I'm not the only one with that idea, although I don't have the means to try it. Not true if you understand it as "braking slabs at home". NGC will specify mintmaster initials on a new label and will re-slab a coin again (for $5 fee maximum) . If one wants to really crack a slab at home, remove a coin and look up mintmaster initials on his own he will have to pay entire grading fee again. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 It does not make any difference how the mintmaster initials revealed, by breaking slab at home or sending it for re-grade. The point was: OUT OF ~150 NONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 That means the next guy who breaks 150 open could get 4 ARs!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 That means the next guy who breaks 150 open could get 4 ARs!!! Well, you can try to do so. I hope you'll find one in a very high grade. BTW, Please let me know if you'll find one in MS65. My offer is still open: $1000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted April 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Actually, 5 roubles 1901-AR is extremely scarce in all grades ... [snip] ... However, it is still possible to find them for much less (unslabbed, but very nice -- at least AU or low-grade MS): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=180219147267 I needed this to replace the one I have which is only VF, so stay tuned for an offering coming soon! Well, I am glad that I didn't sell my other one yet. Received the coin, which I had requested to be shipped to my Mom's address in USA, back in March; however, I was only able to inspect it after I arrived there last Monday. It was FZ, not AR ! The seller offered me a complete refund and apologized for his mistake. But really, folks ... is it THAT difficult to attribute these coins correctly? A lot of trouble and high hopes for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Well, I am glad that I didn't sell my other one yet. Received the coin, which I had requested to be shipped to my Mom's address in USA, back in March; however, I was only able to inspect it after I arrived there last Monday. It was FZ, not AR ! The seller offered me a complete refund and apologized for his mistake. But really, folks ... is it THAT difficult to attribute these coins correctly? A lot of trouble and high hopes for nothing. Have you dealt with this seller before? It's a good thing that he is giving you a complete refund after more than a month since the sale. But again, it's not just the money is it? How very frustrating!!! One would think that if they went to the trouble of answering your question the least they could do is read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 Well, I am glad that I didn't sell my other one yet. Received the coin, which I had requested to be shipped to my Mom's address in USA, back in March; however, I was only able to inspect it after I arrived there last Monday. It was FZ, not AR ! The seller offered me a complete refund and apologized for his mistake. But really, folks ... is it THAT difficult to attribute these coins correctly? A lot of trouble and high hopes for nothing. That's too bad. I think you should also ask refund for postal expences. The difference between 2 coins is too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted April 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 Have you dealt with this seller before? Yes, I bought my 1765-EM novodel 5 kopek coin (Brekke 205) from him last September, and the transaction and coin were both very satisfactory. This seller turns over a lot of coins, so maybe he was just careless. Besides, some references do not list any difference in rarity between the two mintmasters, although more recent ones such as Kazakov do. Maybe he thought it wouldn't matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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