bobh Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 These photos are probably pretty good, IMHO: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=200145441832 However, I don't see this coin as anything near UNC if the photos are an accurate representation ... in fact, I would grade it only a borderline AU-50. All of those hairline scratches and the wear on the crown, beard, etc. surely didn't occur at the mint! What has happened to the NGC grading standards?? Are there that many people going to other 3rd-party companies that they have to worry about their clientele? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 I cannot tie the large obverse image with the images of the coin in the slabs. So I question that it is the slabbed coin in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Julian Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 I cannot tie the large obverse image with the images of the coin in the slabs. So I question that it is the slabbed coin in the first place. The reverse seems to have been photographed in the slab but the obverse was photographed, it would appear, outside the slab. RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 The reverse seems to have been photographed in the slab but the obversewas photographed, it would appear, outside the slab. RWJ Which is why the mystery deepens. If the close-up of the obverse were in the slab as the reverse, I wouldn't question it. But I sure cannot see that 5 o'clock rim knock in the slab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted August 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 Which is why the mystery deepens. If the close-up of the obverse were in the slab as the reverse, I wouldn't question it. But I sure cannot see that 5 o'clock rim knock in the slab. In the meantime, this seller has added a photo of the obverse taken of the coin in the slab. The obverse scan taken outside the slab is still up on the auction page; however, it is pretty obvious that these are two different coins! There is a scratch or die crack (???) in the right obverse field on the coin inside the holder which is missing on the "naked" obverse photo; however, as you have pointed out, there is an obvious rim ding on that one which doesn't appear on the photo of the slabbed coin. Even so, I would still hesitate to grade this one anything but AU-50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Amazing price for such a common coin. Even true MS-62 is an easy coin that worth way less. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 In the meantime, this seller has added a photo of the obverse taken of the coin in the slab. The obverse scan taken outside the slab is still up on the auction page; however, it is pretty obvious that these are two different coins! There is a scratch or die crack (???) in the right obverse field on the coin inside the holder which is missing on the "naked" obverse photo; however, as you have pointed out, there is an obvious rim ding on that one which doesn't appear on the photo of the slabbed coin. Bidiots will buy. Meanwhile in my pursuit of these coins, I may have to settle for not owning the gold again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Amazing price for such a common coin. Even true MS-62 is an easy coin that worth way less. WCO Dear WCO, I'm sorry but I do not agree with this statement. Minstate 1899 10 roubles are much scarcer than you can imagine. Regular XF/Au coins are pretty common , of course, but real BU coins are not easily available comparing to 1902-1904 years. I'd say that the price is about right. Also, if you check NGC/PCGS archives you'll be able to see that the number of these coins graded in MS condition is extremely low. My best regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I have purchased this one 5-6 months ago for $260 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Picture 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 The slab says MS62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Ohh BTW. The coin in this grade is definetely not worth $800. I say 300-400 max on a good day. This year 10 Rouble, BTW, was also minted by bolsheviks like they did it with 1911 10 Rouble or 1915 1 Rouble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Dear WCO, I'm sorry but I do not agree with this statement. Minstate 1899 10 roubles are much scarcer than you can imagine. Regular XF/Au coins are pretty common , of course, but real BU coins are not easily available comparing to 1902-1904 years. I'd say that the price is about right. Also, if you check NGC/PCGS archives you'll be able to see that the number of these coins graded in MS condition is extremely low. My best regards, I myself graded through NGC only about 15 pieces of 1899-AG 10 Rubles (two or three of them as high as MS-65) out of 102 ever graded by NGC so I for sure can not imagine how scarce is the issue. Best regards, WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I myself graded through NGC only about 15 pieces of 1899-AG 10 Rubles (two or three of them as high as MS-65) out of 102 ever graded by NGC so I for sure can not imagine how scarce is the issue. Best regards, WCO The stats are simple: Year/ Mint Den Variety Desig 62 63 63* 64 64* 65 65* 66 66* 67 67* 68 68* 69 69* 70 1899 AT RUSSIA 10R MS........ 9.. 12.....7.....7.....1 You seem to be lucky having "about 15 pieces of 1899-AG 10 rubles ((two or three of them as high as MS-65)" Just do some research on major auctions or EBay and you will see that MS 1899 10 roubles are not that easy to obtain. Do you need help with the Web research ? Just let me know - I'll be more than happy to assist. As always yours, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 The stats are simple:Year/ Mint Den Variety Desig 62 63 63* 64 64* 65 65* 66 66* 67 67* 68 68* 69 69* 70 1899 AT RUSSIA 10R MS........ 9.. 12.....7.....7.....1 You seem to be lucky having "about 15 pieces of 1899-AG 10 rubles ((two or three of them as high as MS-65)" Just do some research on major auctions or EBay and you will see that MS 1899 10 roubles are not that easy to obtain. Do you need help with the Web research ? Just let me know - I'll be more than happy to assist. As always yours, The actual statistic is here: http://www.ngccoin.com/poplookup/poplookup...+Matching+Coins as you can see there are at least 7 coins graded as MS65. I completely agree with the statement that it's hard to get this coin in high grade, but the coin itself is not that rare. For 2 years of monitoring Ebay I remember seeing this coin in MS grades 5-6 times. Meanwhile, I never saw 10 Rouble 1901 AP slabbed. Never saw 10 Rouble 1909 in MS state. 10 Rouble 1902 saw just once in MS state but the price was very crazy at that time. 5-6 times I saw 10 Rouble 1910 in MS65-66. BTW, 10 Rouble 1910 went on one of the Russian auctions for $3000. The coin was not slabbed. I remember seeing 2-2.5 years ago offerings on Ebay 10 Rouble from the period of Alexander III for $3000-4000 and chervoncy from this period are much more scarcer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 The stats are simple:Year/ Mint Den Variety Desig 62 63 63* 64 64* 65 65* 66 66* 67 67* 68 68* 69 69* 70 1899 AT RUSSIA 10R MS........ 9.. 12.....7.....7.....1 You seem to be lucky having "about 15 pieces of 1899-AG 10 rubles ((two or three of them as high as MS-65)" Just do some research on major auctions or EBay and you will see that MS 1899 10 roubles are not that easy to obtain. Do you need help with the Web research ? Just let me know - I'll be more than happy to assist. As always yours, Oldman, Just so you know, if not consider dates found in Norwegian Hoard (1903, 1904, 1910) then 1899-AG is the most common date that have the biggest amount MS coins graded among all dates missing in Norwegian hoard. Cheburgen gave you all the info and I agree with him, $400 is the upper limit of reasonable price for this coin in MS-62. Compare 1899-AG to 1898, 1899-EB, AR or 1900, 1901, 1902, 1909. Even while this thread is opened total number coins graded by NGC increased by 3 pieces from 102 total graded to 105 and guess what? Numbers are now like this: 9(MS-62), 14(MS-63), 8(MS-64), 7(MS-65), 1(MS-66). Two more pieces graded as MS-63 and 1 more as MS-64. Here are stats how many coins are graded in MS-62 or better for other dates: 1898 - 3(MS-62), 1(MS-63), 1(MS-64), total 5 coins 1899-EB - 1(MS-63), total single coin 1899-FZ - 1(MS-62), 1(MS-63), 1(MS-64), total 3 coins 1900 - none 1901-FZ - 1(MS-63), total single coin 1901-AR - 1(MS-62), 1(MS-64), 1(MS-67), total 3 coins 1902 - 3(MS-62), 4(MS-63), 2(MS-64), total 9 coins 1909 - 1(MS-62), 1(MS-63), total 2 coins So all 8 other not found in Norwegian hoard dates TOGETHER total graded in MS-62 or better just 25 coins and for single date 1899-AG MS-62 or better graded 39 coins. Do your reserach. Regards, WCO P.S. And the second most common date in MS is 1911 also re-struck in mass quantities in 1920-s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Oldman, Just so you know, if not consider dates found in Norwegian Hoard (1903, 1904, 1910) then 1899-AG is the most common date that have the biggest amount MS coins graded among all dates missing in Norwegian hoard. Cheburgen gave you all the info and I agree with him, $400 is the upper limit of reasonable price for this coin in MS-62. Compare 1899-AG to 1898, 1899-EB, AR or 1900, 1901, 1902, 1909. Even while this thread is opened total number coins graded by NGC increased by 3 pieces from 102 total graded to 105 and guess what? Numbers are now like this: 9(MS-62), 14(MS-63), 8(MS-64), 7(MS-65), 1(MS-66). Two more pieces graded as MS-63 and 1 more as MS-64. Here are stats how many coins are graded in MS-62 or better for other dates: 1898 - 3(MS-62), 1(MS-63), 1(MS-64), total 5 coins 1899-EB - 1(MS-63), total single coin 1899-FZ - 1(MS-62), 1(MS-63), 1(MS-64), total 3 coins 1900 - none 1901-FZ - 1(MS-63), total single coin 1901-AR - 1(MS-62), 1(MS-64), 1(MS-67), total 3 coins 1902 - 3(MS-62), 4(MS-63), 2(MS-64), total 9 coins 1909 - 1(MS-62), 1(MS-63), total 2 coins So all 8 other not found in Norwegian hoard dates TOGETHER total graded in MS-62 or better just 25 coins and for single date 1899-AG MS-62 or better graded 39 coins. Do your reserach. Regards, WCO P.S. And the second most common date in MS is 1911 also re-struck in mass quantities in 1920-s Dear WCO, thanks for the stats. It is very impressive... I'm willing to buy ALL MS-62 or higher at the limit you set . Do you offer any ? Or , maybe, Mr Cheburgen ? Will respond to any offer. As always yours, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Dear WCO,thanks for the stats. It is very impressive... I'm willing to buy ALL MS-62 or higher at the limit you set . Do you offer any ? Or , maybe, Mr Cheburgen ? Will respond to any offer. As always yours, For you I can offer at $821 since you think this price is reasonable. Will you stand by your word and pay $821 for MS-62 or better graded coins of 1899-AG 10 Rubles? WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaE Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I will pay $850 for MS66 1899-AG 10 Roubles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 For you I can offer at $821 since you think this price is reasonable. Will you stand by your word and pay $821 for MS-62 or better graded coins of 1899-AG 10 Rubles? WCO No, I won't. You have convinced me that I was wrong. Now, I'll accept your $400 limit. Where do I send the Money Order ? Please provide me with your address. Or, you prefer PayPal ? Also, I'll add $20 for shipping. Waiting for your reply with requested data. Very trully yours, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 ...You have convinced me that I was wrong. .... That was my only intention. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 That was my only intention. WCO You succeeded ! Congrats ! How about my offer ? Looks like your comments were just You know what ? One of the members suggested I offer you $401.00, that is right ! FOUR HUNDRED AND ONE AMERICAN DOLLAR !!!! Deal ? Sleep on this and let me know tomorrow...I am pretty old and got to go to bed... Sincerely, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 Dear WCO,thanks for the stats. It is very impressive... I'm willing to buy ALL MS-62 or higher at the limit you set . Do you offer any ? Or , maybe, Mr Cheburgen ? Will respond to any offer. As always yours, Why do you need it? Did not you a couple of months ago make a pompous announcement that you will stop collecting coins and will sell all your collection on major auction? Why now you are asking about it? Maybe you are just trying to increase the interest to your "junk" you are going to sell soon? http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php?showto...rt=#entry328667 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 ... How about my offer ? Looks like your comments were just You know what ? One of the members suggested I offer you $401.00, that is right ! FOUR HUNDRED AND ONE AMERICAN DOLLAR !!!! Deal ? Sleep on this and let me know tomorrow... ... Oldman, Be careful what you wish for. You easily gave up your statement that $821 is a reasonable price. So it seems for me that you are the one who is And I accept your offer but with some modifications. 1. Anyone (within continental US) can buy except you, oldman, or any person affiliated to you at $401 plus insured shipping ($10). I will offer 1899 coin in at least NGC or PCGS MS-62 or even better date/mintmark or grade coin solely at my discretion. I'll provide the info and terms of sales in this same forum if you, oldman, accept my modifications to your own offer. 2. After the coin is paid for and delivered and delivery confirmed you, oldman, voluntarily leaving this and any other public forums forever and never post under any names. Who will take your words seriously then anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 So, oldman, do we have a deal (with my modifications, see above)? Or you will back off now and your offer was another ? Sincerely, WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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