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Proof Finnish Imperial Coins


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Thanks, I already have example how you "translate" letter from Tuukka Talvio.

I don't need another.

I think you next message will be dk_spb wanted to say ....

 

 

Thranslate this:

"So you can say that proof coins were indeed minted in Finland but only for special purposes, and with a technique that was less developed than today".

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<Если я мешаю кому-то наябывать клиентов, втюхивая несуществующий пруф

 

Nobody is doing such things. Finnish Proofs are in slabs and there is nobody who can influence graders from NGC. If you are saying that WCO sent the coin to NGC and told them that this coin is proof and it should be graded as proof, you are mistaken. Try to send one of your coin first for grade and then you can say something about grades, NGC, proof, prooflike. Once again, if you did not have or do not have or did not see such coins it does not mean they do not exist.

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...

About meaning:

Prooflike - first strike coins minted by standard business process which have a mirror surface.

...

 

Definition for word "Prooflike". "Prooflike" is NOT a coin, and in many cases have nothing to do with first strike.

 

Prooflike refers to certain degree of reflectivity of fields of a coin (business strike). The coin may be made with new dies or with old dies but polished (and we know that dies during their lifetime were sometimes polished, and may be even 3-4 times) or Prooflike coin may be made with VERY OLD DIES where surfaces of dies after striking a lot of coins become dense and produce highly mirrorlike surface. And Finnish coins are known to be MS, MS Prooflikes and Proofs.

 

best regards,

WCO

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Please - if you don't have the sources or valid points to contribute to the discussion, kindly refrain on making unnecessary or bias comments. Some off comments are nice at times but I believe this is starting to be a rather serious discussion thread. I read through these 7 pages and it doesn't seem to make any sense. No offense to anyone :ninja:

 

As well as, please kindly refrain from using Russian unless it's quoting off from numismatic materials. Please remember that this is an English forum! ;)

 

I'll keep myself quiet for now. ;)

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<but I believe this is starting to be a rather serious discussion.

 

Oh... sorry, nothing serious. :ninja: I think that we should close this thread and open another one. Something like: "Graders in NGC are clowns"

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Sometimes coins look very different. Here is one example, I really can't choose which one to keep. Second coin looks "black", but it's like mirror. You can see your own face, if look into it.. Which one you think is better?

25p1909white.jpg

25p1909mirror.jpg

 

These both coins look for me as Business Strikes. First with frosty luster and second Prooflike or semi-Prooflike. Both are nice coins, but not subject to our discassion about Proofs.

 

WCO

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Sorry, but there are no finnish proofs. That is best you can do.

 

So, and basically by publishing the pictures of prooflike, you are trying to say that there is no proofs? That is how you prove your point?

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Just for comparison purposes with the two coins above want to add this coin:

http://i01.expertcollector.com/uploads/0003000045_1.jpg

http://i01.expertcollector.com/uploads/0003000045_2.jpg

Does it look somewhat different from the two coins above? Graded by NGC PR-66CAMEO

WCO

Wow!!! Many differences from your gold proof coin.

All lines of greed are present. May be light is not enough? ;-)

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My friend...

And there is still so little knowledge about coins in Russia and Finland that for decades Irving Goodman catalogue printed in United States was the best reference for Russian coins.

My friend, you said "bla-bla-bla" again!

Please tell me numbers of items (or lots) from Irving Goodman catalogue for "a dozen Finnish coins".

I think you have this catalogue and you already read it.

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As well as, please kindly refrain from using Russian unless it's quoting off from numismatic materials. Please remember that this is an English forum!

 

<edited> akdrv

 

Question for all (it is not fact for discuss and it is very interesting for me): could anybody compare quantity of coins graded by NGC as proof and as prooflike?

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Prooflike refers to certain degree of reflectivity of fields of a coin (business strike). The coin may be made with new dies or with old dies but polished (and we know that dies during their lifetime were sometimes polished, and may be even 3-4 times)

Yes, of course.

But after their lifetime ;-)

Very very old dies polished till lost of details ;-)

As your 20M1913

I think you have the best scans of your 20m1913.

Please show me scans with all details.

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