Internet auctions

[syzygy]

Over the last few years, I have read a great deal of message traffic concerning experiences purchasing coins via Internet auctions. Admittedly unscientific, my impression is that more of the messages have been negative than positive. In this regard, I wonder what folks believe the improved, or ideal Internet auction site would offer?

 

As far as my own experiences: I have made about 40-60 purchases via Internet auction over the last three years. The number of purchases has declined over time. I have never been outright ripped off. On 5-6 occasions I would never have made the purchase if I had the coin in hand (mostly cleaning or scratch damage undetected from the picture). I returned one purchase and it was amicable. Most purchases were decent deals. A few of these were very good, and a few less than good. I don’t think any of my purchases were over $100 and I would speculate that the average purchase price was about $20.

 

Here are my top five “issues” I would like to see addressed in an improved or ideal Internet auction site (there may be a lot of reasons why these will never be implemented and I admit that they are quite buyer biased):

 

1. Absolute, unconditional, money back return on every purchase (time and packaging restricted).

 

2. Minimal picture quality and resolution standards.

 

3. Only genuine coins offered: No counterfeit, altered, or replicas for sale.

 

4. One-way feedback – only from the buyer, for the seller (non paying buyers could be listed somewhere).

 

5. Standardized shipping and handling charges.

[Scottishmoney]

I have used eBay since 1997, historically I bought more on there than I do now. Frankly I think my numismatic interests are a bit more refined now than they were then, so I tend to purchase coins outright rather than go to that great online fleamarket.

 

As for my interests, I can find interesting paper money or tokens, but when it comes to ancients, the vast majority of what I see on online venues such as eBay are junk or of dubious authenticity, so I look but never bid.

 

I have honestly never occasioned to seriously desire to return any item purchased on eBay, but once I did have a temporary disappointment when I bid on and got a Scottish banknote, with two holes punched in it, I pondered asking the seller about sending it back and getting a refund. With a bit more research on the note, I determined in fact that it was not damaged as I had thought but was a very rare specimen note and was easily worth 20X times what I paid for it. An example of a very nice surprise when I had first thought I had been ripped off.

[gxseries]

It's not really fair to say why most of us are losing great deals on ebay - there are more buyers than what the number of sellers exist. Most of the times during the early times, there weren't too many buyers that would be interested in something that could be pretty rare and because there is a lack of knowledge coupled with the fact that there might have been such great forums like this, obviously they would have gone way too cheap. That is what I have noticed with my area of Russian numismatics as I noticed an explosion of bidders from the Russian Federation. Simply put - people are getting more clever than ever before.

 

That said, of course, I detest counterfeited coins as well as poor quality images. What I think is we need more reliable sellers, instead of some lame sellers, i.e. new come sellers asking for 1000+ for starting price - I don't dare to trust such. Occasionally there are feedbacks from jerks that just ruins the sellers' reputation - that I wish if eBay had the time is to confirm such and if that happened to be a total lie, would place some sort of warning to the buyer before he gets NARU'ed

 

There was a sad story of a seller of not knowing how to pack a coin and the coin was an UNC 1877 (something) which was supposed to be pretty scarce, given the grade. What the seller did was to cut a hole in a piece of cupboard, and put the tape on one side, shove the coin into the cupboard, and tape it up. Of course, the sticky bits got to the coin, so it wasn't too brilliant... But I think there is a limit to how much a seller can do, especially if he knows ZERO about numismatic on how to handle and care. That as well applies to bad photography.

 

Perhaps the best solution is a third party to do most of the jobs and that will handle all of jobs above. If the seller sends a coin and the third party finds it as counterfeit, no sales is made. If the coin is determinted as genuine, then the third party can start the sell and help to take pics and standardize the shipping charges. They can as well do the gradings and handle refunds etc - that way should solve a lot of problems except who would want to be a third party after all the troubles.

[Guest Stujoe]

I agree with most of your improvements, however, instead of one way feedback, I would prefer mandator and blind feedback. In other words, neither party know what the other has left until both have left feedback and make feedback not optional but required. I think buyers still need to be rated.

[jlueke]

According to Ebay I've been a member there since 1998. Before that I bought from Alabanese when they had their coin auction site. I've used Teletrade, Heritage, Gorny, CNG, and many others dealer specific sites. Recenty I've started watching vauctions.

 

I find that ebay's problem and perhaps it's strength is that anyone can sll to anyone else. It is truly a flea market, a bazaar. All the other sites have some sort of restrictions.

 

With ebay you can the chance of a great deal but at the risk of a bad one. MOst other places you are ensured to get what you paid for, but there's not the chance for the bargain. Ebay is also better for lower cost items that don't make sense to list on dealer specific sites.

 

Personally I'm moving away from ebay because of the hassle. Sure I might lose a deal but at this point I value my time more than the hope of finding a bargain.

 

Taking the online world as a whole, there is something for everyone.

[JamminJ]

Ebay is both risk and opportunity. With a little effort you can minimize risk to pretty much zero. Look for sellers with clearly return privileges, good photographs, reasonable shipping and good feedback. Avoid sellers with paragraphs of legalistic fine print, locations in backwards places, awful pictures and no way to pay with a credit card. However, when doing so realize these sellers will garner stronger prices making it unlikely you’ll get a bargain.

 

As for feedback, too many lunatics out there for most sellers to go naked.

[BigMo]

I like the idea one of the other auctions have in that if a bid

is made within the last couple of minutes,the auction is extended

for another fifteen minutes.

 

...Tony...

[syzygy]

I hear the point about some Internet auction houses having a Treasure find appeal, but I think that the searching for treasure aspect is a huge disadvantage because of what else it brings along.

 

I am decidedly buyer-biased because I am focussing on the technological breakthrough for the seller that Internet auctions offer. Collecting as a kid, we always noted the difference between the Bluebook and the Redbook prices. The former was what the shop dealer might give for the coin and the latter was what you might pay to purchase the coin. Buy a coin at shop A - go across town to shop B and you can sell it for 50-60% of what you just paid. Of course that difference can be justified on the basis of all that is involved in the buisness of being a coin dealer with a coin shop.

 

But now, with the Internet auction, ANYBODY can be a seller. Moreover, any seller can reach a huge number of buyers. That is an incredible technical breakthrough that should translate into a huge advantage for sellers and in turn, a better deal for the buyer. But it does not seem so. Buyers do not seem to have insisted on some fundamental standards.

[JamminJ]

But now, with the Internet auction, ANYBODY can be a seller.  Moreover, any seller can reach a huge number of buyers. That is an incredible technical breakthrough that should translate into a huge advantage for sellers and in turn, a better deal for the buyer.  But it does not seem so.  Buyers do not seem to have insisted on some fundamental standards.

 

I think you're missing a great advantage all those sellers offer to buyers in that it brings out more esoteric stuff. Without the internet there's no way I'd have been able to find as much nice and diverse stuff as I have.

[syzygy]

I think you're missing a great advantage all those sellers offer to buyers in that it brings out more esoteric stuff.  Without the internet there's no way I'd have been able to find as much nice and diverse stuff as I have.

 

Noted and definitely true. That is a big plus for the buyer - enhanced availability. It is just the other side of the coin for the seller - increased customer base.

[JamminJ]

Here's an example:

 

 

I bought this coin from a seller in Slovenia very inexpensively. He had good feedback, took credit cards and a reasonably long track record of selling similar stuff. It was priced such that the risk/reward was favorable so I placed a bid. In hand I would have paid 3x hammer for this coin.

 

Scary seller but I was one happy buyer.

[syzygy]

Here's an example:

....

 

Scary seller but I was one happy buyer.

 

Great transaction! So, what do you think can be done to improve online auctions or are you ok with them as is?

[AuldFartte]

I think a few public executions of scammers would go a long way towards cleaning up ebay. I have moved almost completely away from ebay because of the proliferation of really bad sellers and crummy material. Of course, I get the stuffing kicked out of me trying to compete with online auction houses, so I end up with a lot less coins that I used to. That said, I like your proposals, but I don't see any of them being implemented anytime soon.

 

I still prefer coin shows and brick and mortar shops

[syzygy]

.....

I still prefer coin shows and brick and mortar shops

 

Absolutely agree! I am lucky to have several shops nearby and a large coin show held regularly. I would say that my purchases now (which are not that many) are about 10-20:1 coin-in-hand, over the counter or bourse.

[Art]

I like ebay and I think that most of the things people talk about as "improvements" are availabe to each of us, if we are diligent in who we deal with.

 

When I list items for sale, I always offer a full refund if the buyer is unsatisfied in anyway. My only caveats are that the item must be returned via insured shipping and that unless there is a defect or quality problem the buyer pays the shipping expenses.

 

I also state my shipping and handling costs in the ad. No surprises. I do not ship coins in regular envelopes with .37 cent stamps on them. If the purchaser doesn't want to pay a little extra to get secure shipping, then I feel they should purchase elsewhere.

 

I look for sellers who have similar policies. If you do this it's a big wonderful world of shopping choices. Heck, I can get the opportunity to purchase from people all over the world.

 

I'd like to see a greater variety in listing templates and more readily accessible sales management tools. I'd really like to be able to add a note to a listing that I'm viewing as I tell ebay to add it to my watch list instead of having this be two separate actions.

[Guest Stujoe]

I still prefer coin shows and brick and mortar shops

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I actually bought something on Ebay today. My usual type of purchase...some inexpensive (birth year) world coins that I just won't find locally. That is pretty much the kind of stuff I use Ebay for these days.

[JamminJ]

Great transaction!  So, what do you think can be done to improve online auctions or are you ok with them as is?

 

 

I don't really spend much time thinking about improvements - I live in the world as it is rather than as I would like it to be.

 

That beaing said, I would comment that fairness & responsibility is a two way street. In addition to the many responsibilities a good seller has, buyers also have responsibility. They need to understand rules and terms before bidding and keep on moving should they be unacceptable. They also need to exercise a reasonable amount of caution - anyone who bids on raw trade dollars from China expecting genuine coins deserves to be ripped IMO.