Production of Presidential Dollar coins will be greatly reduced

[UncleBobo]

Presidential dollar coins victims of budget crunch

 

Sorry, President Chester Arthur. Nobody wants you.

 

Searching for savings in a tough economy, the White House said on Tuesday that the U.S. Mint would scrap automatic production of millions of dollar coins bearing the image of deceased American presidents at a saving of $50 million a year.

 

"As will shock you all, calls for Chester A. Arthur coins are not big," said Vice President Joe Biden, referring to the country's 21st president, who died in 1886. "I'm not commenting on his presidency, but it just is not very high."

 

The U.S. Treasury estimates there are almost $1.4 billion worth of dollar coins sitting in the vaults of the Federal Reserve, with 1.6 billion more coins scheduled to be minted over the next five years.

 

"They make hundreds of millions of these coins every year. Forty percent of them end up being returned to the Federal Reserve because nobody wants them," Biden told a meeting on cutting waste in government.

 

The surplus was created by a 2005 Act of Congress which instructed the Mint to produce 70-80 million coins per deceased president, of which there are currently 39.

 

"From now on, we're only going to make as many coins as collectors demand, and we're going to charge a premium for the coins so it doesn't cost us a dime to make ... no matter whose president's face is on the coin," Biden said.

[cvargo]

I have a few. I am a history buff so I will keep them as I get them in ciruclation but I am not going to go out of my way to get them like I do the quarters

[Art1.2]

Presidential dollar coins victims of budget crunch

 

Sorry, President Chester Arthur. Nobody wants you.

 

Searching for savings in a tough economy, the White House said on Tuesday that the U.S. Mint would scrap automatic production of millions of dollar coins bearing the image of deceased American presidents at a saving of $50 million a year.

 

"As will shock you all, calls for Chester A. Arthur coins are not big," said Vice President Joe Biden, referring to the country's 21st president, who died in 1886. "I'm not commenting on his presidency, but it just is not very high."

 

The U.S. Treasury estimates there are almost $1.4 billion worth of dollar coins sitting in the vaults of the Federal Reserve, with 1.6 billion more coins scheduled to be minted over the next five years.

 

"They make hundreds of millions of these coins every year. Forty percent of them end up being returned to the Federal Reserve because nobody wants them," Biden told a meeting on cutting waste in government.

 

The surplus was created by a 2005 Act of Congress which instructed the Mint to produce 70-80 million coins per deceased president, of which there are currently 39.

 

"From now on, we're only going to make as many coins as collectors demand, and we're going to charge a premium for the coins so it doesn't cost us a dime to make ... no matter whose president's face is on the coin," Biden said.

 

 

Soapbox time. This is bull. They make a bunch of money for each dollar they mint. The cost of materials and production is way below the dollar value of the coin. The coins are stored and are written off in the federal budget at face value not production cost. Sure nobody wants them, why would they? Cut the big lobby bucks to Crane for paper production by easing the $1 note supply and the dollar coin will magically find daily use.

end of soapbox.

[thedeadpoint]

I guess they need to balance the revenues from minting coins with the inflation of putting them into circulation.

[bill]

Soapbox time. This is bull. They make a bunch of money for each dollar they mint. The cost of materials and production is way below the dollar value of the coin. The coins are stored and are written off in the federal budget at face value not production cost. Sure nobody wants them, why would they? Cut the big lobby bucks to Crane for paper production by easing the $1 note supply and the dollar coin will magically find daily use.

end of soapbox.

 

Art, Art, Art ...... tsk, tsk, tsk. We've needed to drop the dollar bill for far too many years now. Common sense, however, is clearly not so common. I paid my entrance fee to a coin show a few years ago with dollar coins. They were not happy. What are these and why are you pawning them off on us they said. I replied, its a coin show! I'm using coins! Unfortunately, we are losing somewhere between 30 and 50 million dollars a year paying to store all those dollars because not even coin shows want to handle them. Dump the paper dollar and that will change just as you predict. Too easy.

 

(Ooops, I guess I got on your soapbox. Hope its strong enough. )

[ccg]

Art, Art, Art ...... tsk, tsk, tsk. We've needed to drop the dollar bill for far too many years now. Common sense, however, is clearly not so common. I paid my entrance fee to a coin show a few years ago with dollar coins. They were not happy. What are these and why are you pawning them off on us they said. I replied, its a coin show! I'm using coins! Unfortunately, we are losing somewhere between 30 and 50 million dollars a year paying to store all those dollars because not even coin shows want to handle them. Dump the paper dollar and that will change just as you predict. Too easy.

 

(Ooops, I guess I got on your soapbox. Hope its strong enough. )

 

[Saor Alba]

A seemly aspect of so much of our current monetary supply is how much of it is beholden to some special interest group or another. Crane and Co for paper, some zinc mine in Kentucky for cents etc. And all of these corporate entities are of course political donors to campaigns. Frankly we would have dumped using cents years ago except for the lobbying by that zinc mine. Crane and Co, well they had big Teddy K. in their payola.

 

Frankly I think they should send all if not most of these coins to Zimbabwe, Ecuador, Panama, E. Timor etc where they prefer coins over paper.

 

If it weren't for Crane and Co we would likely have polymer notes that would be much more difficult to make forgeries of. But we are beholden to that certain little paper mill in Massachusetts.

 

Presidential dollar coins - I only have one - Abraham Lincoln, and only because I collect anything numismatic with Lincoln on it. I would like to find the First Lady $10 for Mary Lincoln sometime.

[Steve D'Ippolito]

I've found the artwork on these coins to do an excellent job of making whatever president is being portrayed, look ugly. Washington was hideous. I'm not at all sure I would feel honored to be portrayed on any sort of numismatic item by these artists.

 

So while, in the abstract, I agree we should be phasing out dollar bills for dollar coins, I'd want to do a couple of things to these coins. First, I'd want to make them smaller. It's only a matter of time before we want a $2, $5 and even a $10 coin (as we lose the cent and nickel and even dime to inflation), and ideally they should all be gold colored and increasing in size. Yes SOME vending machine companies would scream bloody murder, but it is not as if anyone uses the darned things today (I think I have gotten exactly ONE of them in circulation, ever), and I doubt many vending machines take them anyway.

 

Second, I'd want the coin to be esthetically appealing, which these coins are NOT.

 

I think this series needs to be ended immediately, and the whole design--including the specifications--of the dollar coin re-evaluated, and FGS let's not let it be a victim of political correctness this time.

[Roger]

I collect them, I also use them instead of the bills. I also collect and use half dollars.

No I don't pay my electric bill with them, just small every day purchases like buying

a hot dog and coke at Costco. Leave it to Biden and his puppet master O-blab-a to scrap

a program that would save millions if administered properly.

You don't see Canada scraping the one and two dollar program.

Again this current administration is letting their alligator mouths overload

their hummingbird butts. It really is time for the dollar bill to go away (sorry George!)

I really didn't want to go into the for-Biden area of politics but these guys are really making

me want to puke. Sooo- I have to ask, Hows that hope and change (pocket) working for you?

[Art1.2]

I'm thinking that the kids' Christmas money should come in the form of Presidential and SAC dollars this year. Wrap them up and then the little folks could help the cause by spending them helter-skelter.

[Dockwalliper]

Soapbox time. This is bull. They make a bunch of money for each dollar they mint. The cost of materials and production is way below the dollar value of the coin. The coins are stored and are written off in the federal budget at face value not production cost. Sure nobody wants them, why would they? Cut the big lobby bucks to Crane for paper production by easing the $1 note supply and the dollar coin will magically find daily use.

end of soapbox.

 

And the savings would be much higher.

[Dockwalliper]

Congress debated for months and passed a law that ditcated how many dollar coins should be made. How can the White House or anyone else just decide the law won't be followed?

[Steve D'Ippolito]

I'm thinking that the kids' Christmas money should come in the form of Presidential and SAC dollars this year. Wrap them up and then the little folks could help the cause by spending them helter-skelter.

 

They can spend 'em or keep 'em. When I was a kid, we'd get Ikes, one per each year of age. Back in that day when a dollar was still worth a dime, that was significant! A cool thing actually, but then I was a budding coin collector. Heck, halves still circulated, albeit rarely, and/or were remembered by people, back then (early 70s). I encourage you to do this as it could help spark or maintain an interest in collecting, but it won't have the effect you are claiming here.

 

If they spend the Sac and Presidential dollars, it "won't help the cause." They'll go straight into the fifth bin of the cash drawer (and more likely than not the cashier will be mildly annoyed with the kid handing them weird stuff, assuming they recognize them as money at all), and not come out again--because the cashier is habituated to handing out paper money, and they probably hate the stuff that goes in the fifth bin--until closing (unless someone happens to spot them there and _asks_ for them). At closing they will go to the bank, never to be seen in circulation again.

 

Remember when Walmart agressively pushed the Sac dollar as it was released? No habits changed. It didn't work. A few collectors and their kids spending the things won't ever make a difference.

 

Dollar coins WON'T be used except in this extremely minor way, until people have no choice but to change their habits, by having paper dollars go away. No need to demonetize and recall them, just quit making them (and have the mint ready to fire up the dollar presses because demand will go through the roof). Attrition will take care of the rest. And given the fact that dollar coins effectively don't circulate, I think we have a opportunity to design the dollar coin a bit more intelligently _before_ we force it on people this way.

 

(Yes, I said "force." Even though it's the right thing to do I guarantee you most people won't _want_ to make the change. If they change their minds it will be later.)

 

The current coin diameter and thickness is based on the old Susan B. Anthony, which _also_ didn't circulate and _also_ was ugly--so really what was the point of emulating it? I think the coin should be smaller in diameter (to allow for the eventual introduction of larger denominations of the same fabric) and considerably thicker--maybe something like the "round pound." And if we can find another gold colored alloy that doesn't turn an ugly dull tan very quickly, we should take that opportunity. (I'd think about an unsubtly polygonal shape--not 11 sided with corners so rounded it's practically circular, like the Loonie, but something like eight or six--but that would play hell with vending machines.) Too bad the nickel is the size it is, that would otherwise be a near perfect size.

[Dockwalliper]

Vending companies spent millions outfitting machines to take the coins, they shouldn't have to spend it again for a new size coin. The same size works just fine in Canada because they got rid of the dollar bill. All vending machines around here take them just fine. I use them at work when I can get them.

[Saor Alba]

It cost a lot more to put dollar bill readers in the machines than it does a coin sorter.

[Steve D'Ippolito]

This is interesting because I have NEVER actually seen a vending machine that takes these coins!

 

I agree that another slot for coins would be much cheaper than those dollar bill readers. What I am getting at now is that since few machines take the coins and they basically don't circulate, we have the opportunity to re-design them from the ground up _before_ we force the changeover by discontinuing dollar bills.

 

Dockwalliper misses my point. Certainly the size would function in a machine. But what happens 15 years down the road when we want to introduce a five dollar coin? It will have to be something _totally_ different because the dollar coin is so big, you cannot make something even bigger for five bucks that has the same color, etc. Make a _small_ dollar coin then make a bigger coin of the same composition for the five dollar coin down the road.

 

The current dollar coin was made the way it was so that it would be the same size and magnetic signature as the SBA dollar, while looking quite different, to avoid confusion with quarters. I maintain this is pointless because there are hardly any vending machines (like I said, I know of exactly zero, but I imagine there is one somewhere) that take either coin, in the first place. So let's start over, and design a coin that actually makes SENSE rather than just mimics something from the past no one cares about. Once we discontinue the dollar bills, it will be too late.

 

Imagine a few years down the road, we have a "silver" series of coins... the dime, quarter, and perhaps a resurrected half dollar. Not really silver of course but silver in color. These are all fractional coins, and their sizes increase with value. (The nickel and cent are dead.) We have a "gold" or bimetallic series of coins that is whole dollars, a 1, 2 and 5 say, that increase in size but are similar in composition and feel, and it's very simple and consistent--gold(or bimetallic) coins are a dollar or more, silver coins are small change.

 

If we start off with a large dollar coin like the boondoggle we have today, we preclude this possibility, and we end up with a hodgepodge worse than we have today.

 

AND the alloy turns ugly with age (which you'd realize if the damned things actually circulated--the only reason I know this is because someone I know kept one as a pocket piece--OBTW the plating of the magic alloy wore off the edge and exposed the copper!) AND the artistry on the presidential portraits is awful.

 

New alloy that is solid not plated (or I suppose we could go bimetallic). Smaller size. Better design. I could get behind _that_ dollar coin. The one we have right now is junk.

[Dockwalliper]

Have you tried a dollar coin in a machine? I'd be willing to bet 90% + machines in the US take the dollar coins and you don't need a new slot.

Canada followed the dollar coin with a bit larger $2 coin without problems and have been considering a $5 coin for some time now and will not change the size of the other coins.

Making the dollar coin smaller will make the confusion with the quarter much worse.

Not only are bill changers more costly they break down more. At least once a week I have bills rejected or they just are not working. I only remember one time where my dollar coin just dropped thru.

I understand your point, I just don't agree at all.

[cvargo]

Most vending machines take dollar coins where I am at as well. They even take credit cards!

[Art1.2]

As I recall when Congress passed the legislation for the Presidential Dollars and the Native American Dollars they included a requirement that ALL vending machines on Federal premises both accept and dispense the dollar coins. I don't use vending machines often but the machines around here that sell lottery tickets and that sort of thing take the dollar coins. The vending machines at most of Florida's reststops take them too. The only machines that I know of that dispensed them were at the post office and they've discontinued them.

 

I know a lot of folks who have places that take them for tolls, parking fees, parking meters and such. In fact dollars and half dollars are a lot more convenient for tolls than dollar bills, IMO. (Before anyone gets on it -- yes the toll cards that allow you to speed through without stopping are far far more convenient than either. But I don't use toll roads enough to bother having them.)

[Dockwalliper]

It is so much easier to pull a dollar coin from my pocket and plop it in the pop machine than pull a dollar folded in my wallet, make sure the are no folds, tape or tears and feedit into the bill changer.

[Art1.2]

It is so much easier to pull a dollar coin from my pocket and plop it in the pop machine than pull a dollar folded in my wallet, make sure the are no folds, tape or tears and feedit into the bill changer.

 

 

Not to mention the problem of catching those pesky moths and putting them back in place.

[Mark Stilson]

I have mixed feelings on them. I end up with a lot of ones in my bill fold and if I had to use coins I would probably be using them or shifting those out fast for fives. But its one of those if it saves taxpayer money I'm for it. Dropping the amount minted now to me will also possibly make them a little more collectable. Though I kind of got the blahs about collecting them now. If they keep the amount consistent there is the possibility of up coming ones like Teddy being hoarded. Would not mind them being dropped for a different design, but I think these are here to stay. Momentum or should I say inertia at D.C. is tough to change.

[tommyd]

They should never have been started, but that being said, they must now be minted to completion -- a million half-filled albums will surely not help encourage the future generation of collectors in this country...

[ccg]