CRIMEA KYRMIS - too nice to be true?

[sigistenz]

 

Hi folks, here is a tempting coin - but why does it look porous?

May I repeat my question of some time ago - why do these mostly come porous?

Looking forward to your opinions - thank you! Sigi

[Saor Alba]

I am not as up on coins of Krimea as I wish I was - gees, unfortunately not even been there, but was going to go last summer. This coin just has enough porosity to suggest a possibility of it having been cast and not struck - but I opin this because like I say, Krimean coins so far I have not yet researched or collected.

[RW Julian]

Hi folks, here is a tempting coin - but why does it look porous?

May I repeat my question of some time ago - why do those mostly come porous?

Looking forward to your opinions - thank you! Sigi

It is possible that the rollers (which flattened the ingots) were of poor quality and, as

a result, the planchets themselves were of equally poor quality and pitted. It is not

likely that the planchets were cast, but this is possible.

 

RWJ

[gxseries]

Ok I keep seeing these coins but I have no idea where Crimea Krim is. From what I looked up, it's part of Ukraine now.

 

How does this relate to Russian numismatics? I see text on the coin that's in Arabic. Would definitely would to know more about it's history.

[alexbq2]

Ok I keep seeing these coins but I have no idea where Crimea Krim is. From what I looked up, it's part of Ukraine now.

 

How does this relate to Russian numismatics? I see text on the coin that's in Arabic. Would definitely would to know more about it's history.

 

A brief history of Crimea, as I understand it.

 

Crimea has been much coveted by Russia, even before Russia became an empire. It was, at that point in time, populated by Crimean tatars. They were a Khanat, one of the remnant states of the great Golden Horde. They raided Ukraine and Russia. Russians mounted military expeditions against them - not always successful ones.

 

Crimean Khanat was stuck between the Ottoman empire and Russia. For the most part they were allied to the Ottomans. But through shift in power and complex internal and external politics Crimea ended up being ruled by Shahin Girey who was allied to Russia. He wanted to modernize the Khanat, and was looking to Russia for assistance. He reformed the monetary system. He brought in European equipment to mill coins, he asked Catherine II for copper and silver and I think some expertise to setup the new mints. And it is believed that he linked his new copper coins to the Russian copper coins. For instance Kyrmis is equated to 5 kopeeks.

 

Shahin Girey ended up turning Crimea over to the Russian empire. He himself moved to Russia, and lived there for some time. I think under some restraining conditions. Later he asked Catherine to set him lose. He left Russia, and ended up in some part of the Ottoman empire, where he was promised some governorship. But he was poisoned.

 

Crimea was part of the Russian empire and later, in the Soviet days, of the Russian Federal Soviet Republic. But in late 1950's, Nikita Khrushchev reassigned Crimea to be part of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialistic Republic. Which is now an independent country known as Ukraine.

[gxseries]

Alex, thank you for typing out an interesting history. It's a lot better than what wikipedia has!

 

So Alex, when you said "Crimean Khanat brought in Europeam equipment to mill coins and asked Catherine II for copper and silver coins", do you mean he imported the copper planchets from Russia back then? Therefore the coins are of the same size as the 5 kopek and 1(?) kopek?

[Saor Alba]

Back in the 17th century the Black Sea was one great big Ottoman lake - so large portions of what are now S. Ukraine and on into SE Russia were then vassal states of the Ottoman Empire. Tsar Petr I started the push to expand the Russian Empire into the Black Sea area with the objective of Russia having access to ports that did not freeze over in the winter insuring year round trade. In that vane he fought the Ottomans beginning in the late 17th century and seized Azov and the region near what is now Rostov Na Donu. Slowly but surely the Russian Empire pushed the Ottomans off of the northern half of the Black Sea by the 1780's and likely would have pursued taking the Dardanelles and Contstantinople had the Holy Roman Empire(Austria and German States etc) not checked the Russians.

 

Sometime for interesting read, get "Peter the Great" by Robert K. Massie or find it's Russian translation. It covers the history of a lot of this.

[alexbq2]

Alex, thank you for typing out an interesting history. It's a lot better than what wikipedia has!

 

So Alex, when you said "Crimean Khanat brought in Europeam equipment to mill coins and asked Catherine II for copper and silver coins", do you mean he imported the copper planchets from Russia back then? Therefore the coins are of the same size as the 5 kopek and 1(?) kopek?

 

No, I think they brought the actual metal, probably in bars. The Crimean coins are actually heavier than the Russian counterparts. But the theory of their equivalence is very old, and thus these coins entered the Russian coin market and are listed in almost every major catalog.