bobh Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 1913 Tercentenary Rouble sold at $475 on eBay Madness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 a slab was sold, not a coin... Some people have too much $ for a couple of hundred to matter either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 1913 Tercentenary Rouble sold at $475 on eBay Madness! "A slab, a slab, my kingdom for a slab!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterShell Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 Which reminds me..do you have some popular word for slab? We call it - in translation of course - a casket .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candidate Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 Which reminds me..do you have some popular word for slab? We call it - in translation of course - a casket .. Same in Russia: "grobik" (small coffin). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altyn Posted November 18, 2010 Report Share Posted November 18, 2010 Very funny. But is there any other way to buy high quality genuine coins on eBay, sight unseen? I would be happy to know but I doubt anyone can tell. Yes, one can send a coin back, deal only with reputable sellers, etc etc, but more often than not a raw coin listed as Gem BU turns out just a cleaned AU at best and a return is always a risk and a hassle. Been there, done that. So, my choices for high end coins these days are either buy nothing or pay extra for a slab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterShell Posted November 18, 2010 Report Share Posted November 18, 2010 If you make ebay your main source of purchase and you dont have time to look around a little bit .. yes ! you have to pay tax of ignorance.. By the way.. do you know how the grading process goes on? So how it is different from the opinion of the guys on the street? They will come to you with the coin and tell you this is MS65 or 64 and the other will say 65 ...You have to agree? no? so why you agree with some grading company that it is 65 as it is not! My opinion is: gather as much knowledge as possible about the coins you collect and judge yourself condition of them. Grading is for people without imagination. As I said before.. even if you put "monkey sh..t" in the "grobik" and you will put MS66 there will be a lot people to buy it without checking what is inside. Soon we will trade only plastic boxes (as Chineese started to make also fakes of this..) and noone will care what is inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altyn Posted November 18, 2010 Report Share Posted November 18, 2010 I find the tone of your response inappropriate. I do know what the grading process is. I do know how to evaluate condition of coins. What I do not know is what gives you the right to respond with such arrogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted November 19, 2010 Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 Altyn, your grading process and others are not the same. You may be more critical, some even harsher or easier but rarely do you have the same opinion with everyone else. Grades on the slab is just a convinence. It's the same as when you are in school - when someone who has higher grade than you, does that mean he's a better person than you are? Maybe but not so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altyn Posted November 19, 2010 Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 Gxseries, I agree with you. Of course, a grade is subjective. Of course, it cannot be regarded as final truth. No doubt, one has to have his own head and make conclusions based on his own knowledge and experience and not what others may say, even if these are experts (supposedly) from NGC and PCGS. That was not my point, and I am sorry if I did not make it clear. What I was trying to say is that now, more often than not, buying coins on eBay, sight unseen, is relatively safe only if a coin is graded. The problem, as we all know, in that even if the images provided are good, this remains a 'sight unseen' transaction. So, the choice is to take a risk or not to buy. The risk of buying a cleaned or otherwise damaged coin is lower if a coin is graded (it still exists - fake coins in slabs, overgraded coins, fake slabs are known). This comes with a price, like everything in life. When returns are possible, this is appreciated but returns are hassle. I am not against ungraded coins! From time to time I buy them when I am confident enough (good images, a known good seller etc). But it is getting harder and harder to spot a high quality raw coin on eBay! And many of us, myself included, simply do not have time to drive around looking for dealers, shops or attend shows and auctions to visually inspect coins before them. It would be great if I could do that. Overall, let's not start another dispute pro and anti slabs. This has been done many times already and I think it is obvious that slabs have their usefulness and their negative sides. Nonetheless they are here to stay and we have to make the best out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted November 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2010 Very good arguments, altyn, both pro and contra slabs. I have some slabbed coins, but only as a by-product if the coin I am interested in has one or not. About 80% of my collection is raw ... only if I agree with the grade on the slab (or think it is undergraded) will I buy the coin. Buy the COIN, not the slab! Even if the coin is in a slab ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vit986 Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 Altyn, your grading process and others are not the same. You may be more critical, some even harsher or easier but rarely do you have the same opinion with everyone else. Grades on the slab is just a convinence. It's the same as when you are in school - when someone who has higher grade than you, does that mean he's a better person than you are? Maybe but not so. Grades on the slab is not a convenience. It's a price tag. And a very specific one. When the coin has a lower grade than in your collection but looks the same to you, and probably even more attractive to you - that means you have a few thousand dollars more in your collection. On ONE coin only... Let it be almost ANY Russian imperial rouble in high grade... It means that I simply CAN NOT afford NOT to keep my coins graded... GX - I envy you in a good way... That is why ALL of my coins are slabbed. BTW I do respect graders opinion and find it quite accurate. And I have NEVER seen a fake coin in the slab! Fake slabs - yes. Can anybody do me a favor and show one, finally? Fake RUSSIAN coin in the REAL slab? I think that my stats of grading and dealing with russian coins would allow me to be persvasive... Popular word for the slub is a "poker chip"... Buy the COIN, IN the slab! If the coin is NOT in a slab than PUT it there... If the coin worth it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 .... I have NEVER seen a fake coin in the slab! ... Something you've never seen: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=2&campid=5335826004&toolid=10001&customid=&ext=110609798138&item=120645927672 WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altyn Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 Grades on the slab is not a convenience. It's a price tag. ... this and similar statements reducing everything down to the $$ level would make even me anti-slab! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 Grades on the slab is not a convenience. It's a price tag. And a very specific one. Not everyone agrees that a grading opinion and prices should move in lockstep. For extremely common US coins (such as Morgan dollars), that might be true. But for rare world coins, this is not necessarily the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vit986 Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 Something you've never seen: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=2&campid=5335826004&toolid=10001&customid=&ext=110609798138&item=120645927672 WCO No. Modern ANACS - doesn't count. And you know that very well. Want this thread to be closed as usual? I don't feel like talking to you at all after your previous offensive comments about me. Even now you are sticking your irony were it does not belong. So please be so king to restrain yourself from the comments on my postings in the future. Or should i remind you your own statement about yourself and repost it here? Just to be funny and ironic again? Anyway. PCGS or NGC please. Not a garbage placed in plastic. Since you started this again... Do not bother with the 2 well known examples. I'm aware of it. Show me something different. If you can..... Well... And I will apologize to YOU sincerely for the past comments... Deal? Looks like I would have to kindly ask the moderator to remove this thread as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vit986 Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 ... this and similar statements reducing everything down to the $$ level would make even me anti-slab! Not reducing everything. I just love slabs. And coins... It's a perfect harmony... I'm not rich like you, so this $$ component is important to me. May be some day I can afford to keep a raw coins too... Please keep in mind, I'm talking about expencive (from mine point of view) coins. Not cheap $100-200 stuff. Say, above $1000 dollars... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vit986 Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 Not everyone agrees that a grading opinion and prices should move in lockstep. For extremely common US coins (such as Morgan dollars), that might be true. But for rare world coins, this is not necessarily the case. Absolutely the opposite. You can not tell the difference between MS-63 and MS-65 for the Russian Imperial, say, not so common year of the Nickolas rouble. The difference - a few thousand dollars. MS-63 could be looking much better than 65. Which one will you choose? But again... You are talking about rare coins. In the range of 30k-100k you absolutely right. Grade means almoust nothing... Sorry, if I misunderstood you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 Absolutely the opposite. You can not tell the difference between MS-63 and MS-65 for the Russian Imperial, say, not so common year of the Nickolas rouble. The difference - a few thousand dollars. MS-63 could be looking much better than 65. Which one will you choose? I will choose the coin I like best, regardless of what the label says, if I think the price is reasonable and if I have the funds available. Not everyone agrees that Sheldon scale numbers are appropriate or meaningful for non-US coins. I have never seen a "TRENDS" listing for 18th century Russian coins for various grades of UNC. If one exists, I would like to see it, if only for its amusement value. Grading terminology aside, let us suppose that a dealer has 2 coins of the same type, date, mintmark and variety. One is a beautifully toned, blazing gem with a slight rub which is graded "AU-58". The other is a scruffy, bagmarked coin which has ugly toning but is strictly uncirculated and graded "MS-60". Which one will you choose? I will pick the "less valuable" AU-58 and leave the higher graded MS-60 for another buyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vit986 Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 I will choose the coin I like best, regardless of what the label says, if I think the price is reasonable and if I have the funds available. Not everyone agrees that Sheldon scale numbers are appropriate or meaningful for non-US coins. I have never seen a "TRENDS" listing for 18th century Russian coins for various grades of UNC. If one exists, I would like to see it, if only for its amusement value. Grading terminology aside, let us suppose that a dealer has 2 coins of the same type, date, mintmark and variety. One is a beautifully toned, blazing gem with a slight rub which is graded "AU-58". The other is a scruffy, bagmarked coin which has ugly toning but is strictly uncirculated and graded "MS-60". Which one will you choose? I will pick the "less valuable" AU-58 and leave the higher graded MS-60 for another buyer. You are right about 18-th century. I should of exclude them from the very beginning. Except MS coins. The scale is still meaningful for any coin IMHO... Standard is standard. If you don't have a well preserved product it doesn't mean the standard is bad... Funny you mention the choice... Exactly my case!!! I end up getting both... AU-58 and MS-62. And I must admit it happened quite a few times before... The low grade coin was beautiful... But the goal of my collection - roubles in MS condition, including 18-th century which s EXTREMELY difficult to find in MS condition! However possible... If somebody would CANCEL the Sheldon scale for them - I would be the happiest person... I wish I can waste money on the raw coins... Nothing to worry about... Buy whatever you like and enjoy... That is my dream... Than your kids will sell it for melting value and you do not care, because you ARE RICH anyway! Not my case unfortunately... The slabs are the perfect opportunity to combine the unthinkable...The passion for the coins and the future value of one's collection! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 ... But the goal of my collection - roubles in MS condition, including 18-th century wich s EXTREAMLY difficult to find in MS condition! However possible... Sorry to say it, but your collection of the 18th century roubles will be very, very small. Perhaps one day you will reconsider. Keep in mind that XF is a very nice grade, IMHO. And in many cases VF is the best you will ever see... BTW, I never graded a single 18th century coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vit986 Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 Right... Very small. But some! I do buy XF as well. And I do have some VFs that I will never see in the higher grade. I do realize that! This is why I said before - if somebody would cancel the Sheldon scale for 18th century - I'll be very happy. My approach works perfectly for 19-th century. I'll limit myself. Or if I get rich - switch to a raw coins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 Right... Very small. But some! I am sure I am speaking for the entire forum on this one - Care to share some images? Would love to see some. Do not be shy now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vit986 Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 Please do not provoke me. I have shown a couple of my coins on the russian forums before and regret that even now.... You are memeber there too. You can open NGC census and see that a very few 18-th century coins are graded in MS. As a matter of fact - quite a few of them graded at all.. I wonder, why do you need to know which ones are mine? If the appropriate topic will arise here too - I'll show them. To satisfy someone's curiosity -I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vit986 Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 Ok. For curiousity - this is an example of a coin I'll never get in MS.... I like it and do not care about the grade... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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