vit986 Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 Other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 Other side. Very nice. Thank you. It is not just a question of curiosity, I just love seeing nice coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vit986 Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 You are very welcome. Thank you! And excuse me for being suspicious... Lately it is hard not to be defencive... I would be glad to show some of my coins I'm proud of without trying to proof something. Just for fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 I like it and do not care about the grade... I like it too. It is an unusually attractive example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 I wish I can waste money on the raw coins... Nothing to worry about... Buy whatever you like and enjoy... That is my dream... Than your kids will sell it for melting value and you do not care, because you ARE RICH anyway! Not my case unfortunately... I think you make many assumptions. As for "wasting money on raw coins", consider that all of your coins were raw before they were slabbed. Your 1705 rouble (which you show in this thread) was and is a nice coin preserved by its previous owners for well over 200 years before it was finally entombed in plastic. Did all those collectors who owned it before you "waste money" on it? The security which you seem to feel is provided by slabs is, I believe, largely illusory. When you and I are gone, the professional buyers for our collections will ultimately make their buying decisions based on their own assessments of the coins. A nice coin, raw or slabbed, will almost certainly be in demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vit986 Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 Right. I assume that raw coins from the majority of the collections will be likely discarded as bullion... The illusion is to hope that "the professional buyers for our collections will ultimately make their buying decisions based on their own assessments of the coins". Sorry. It will NOT happen for the majority... I know that as a fact dealing with will executors. Slabbed ones at least have a chance to be seen by the dealers... I assume that if I buy a raw coin I like and want to sell it later I'll likely to loose money... It has to be high grade initially... Initially I would pay a high price because the seller says "it’s the best" and I agree, I like it at that moment... but my friend - disagrees, and so on. Very subjective. Assume I did make a judgment error, because I wanted that coin sooo much... Following slabbing shows indeed I did... So right there - thousands are gone... Assumptions are everywhere... Assume I did not make an error. Following slabbing shows a good grade. Either way the price difference between MS-62 and 65 stays there. Everybody will have its own opinion about the grade and subsequent pricing... We would argue forever. That how it was BEFORE grading companies earned their authority... Even in this case I'll likely to lose money because initially I was buying beautiful no less than MS-65 coin in my humble opinion...... You could be lucky and/or very experienced and profit on grading when you buy a raw coin... Assuming, once again, a seller is unlucky/incompetent. If you are on the budget and have a goal like mine (MS coins only) - how do you know that you are achieving it? Third party opinion is needed. It was not available before. It is available now. But again, I'm talking about myself. All my assumptions make sense (for me, again) only for a high grade coins in a few thousand dollars price range for each coin. And if you care what happens with it after you and I are gone... I was trying to describe my own experience dealing with raw coins over and over again. The reason I mention word RICH so many times... I'm sorry if my reasoning does not make sence to you. I tried. Please ecxuse my exessive amount of words. I'm not in a good mood eather. Probably will regret this post. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 Hi, sorry for the intrusion, this is not hardly ever in this forum, if not to ask for advice on occasion. But this is a very interesting topic, with heavy social aspects (culture, economy, politics, psychology etc.). None, so far, and only indirectly, wrote the very essence of coin collectors, which is before all things cultural. And this aspect of culture, may well live with the slabs. But there is, immediately after, the playful aspect of collecting coins, and without physical contact with the object can not be satisfied (and not speak of any studies that are being hindered by the lack of data, such as weight, analysis of metals, study of particularity, edge inaccessible). Personally I think that the coins slabbed (and those that remain) lose much of their appeal and I never could I have a slab coin in my collection. I've never bought and, if it does happen, the first thing I would remove the “poor creature” from his prison. I understand the economic impact, the need to protect the investment. But, let me say, if I am an investor, buy houses, or gold, or...potatoes :-). Numismatics is a passion that can not and should not be reduced to a simple way to invest their savings. So, for me there are two different numismatic: That of the collectors and that of investors. Collectors, remain. Investors, change. This is, of course, my opinion. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 Hi, sorry for the intrusion, this is not hardly ever in this forum, if not to ask for advice on occasion. But this is a very interesting topic, with heavy social aspects (culture, economy, politics, psychology etc.). None, so far, and only indirectly, wrote the very essence of coin collectors, which is before all things cultural. And this aspect of culture, may well live with the slabs. But there is, immediately after, the playful aspect of collecting coins, and without physical contact with the object can not be satisfied (and not speak of any studies that are being hindered by the lack of data, such as weight, analysis of metals, study of particularity, edge inaccessible). Personally I think that the coins slabbed (and those that remain) lose much of their appeal and I never could I have a slab coin in my collection. I've never bought and, if it does happen, the first thing I would remove the “poor creature” from his prison. I understand the economic impact, the need to protect the investment. But, let me say, if I am an investor, buy houses, or gold, or...potatoes :-). Numismatics is a passion that can not and should not be reduced to a simple way to invest their savings. So, for me there are two different numismatic: That of the collectors and that of investors. Collectors, remain. Investors, change. This is, of course, my opinion. David Thank you for your comments. I agree completely. I am a collector. I remember clearly the hot coin market of 1979-1980. "Fred's Coin Shop" morphed into "Les Galleries Numismatique du Frederique" with fancy prices to match. Investors poured into the market and many dealers decided they didn't need or have time for collectors because there was an infinite supply of investors and their money available. The bubble finally burst in 1981. Prices fell and investors fled the coin market, licking their financial wounds, many of them very angry, never to return. Many dealers went out of business and suddenly there was a new respect for the collector. For those collectors who remained or returned to the coin market, it was a good time to acquire significant coins at attractive prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 Right. I assume that raw coins from the majority of the collections will be likely discarded as bullion... The illusion is to hope that "the professional buyers for our collections will ultimately make their buying decisions based on their own assessments of the coins". Sorry. It will NOT happen for the majority... I know that as a fact dealing with will executors. Slabbed ones at least have a chance to be seen by the dealers... So you are able to buy Russian coins at bullion prices from estates? I am surprised that you are not wealthier than you are. No need to reply. I do not think I want to continue this conversation. Good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted November 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 Numismatics is a passion that can not and should not be reduced to a simple way to invest their savings. Very well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 Very well said! I join to the phraze above, however it is up to collector how to see his collection, how to obtain coins to his collection and how then treat them, so vit986 keep it up - the way you want, the way you think your heart tells you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vit986 Posted November 23, 2010 Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 So you are able to buy Russian coins at bullion prices from estates? I am surprised that you are not wealthier than you are. No need to reply. I do not think I want to continue this conversation. Good luck to you. Thank you! Quite a few collections I bought that way. Quite a few... Most of them in VF-XF. And YES! They WERE sold as a bullion! Not only russian, but Argentinian collection, for example, too! You are right. It gives me enough money to spent it on proper coins in slabs. And not enough to waste on raw coins... I explained why! Over and over again people bring coins to a local dilers to get Krause prices minus %30 from the estates... Do you think its much better than bullion? Chinese collection recently... Amazing coins! Coins is my passion... Slabs is the way to feed it. To feed my passion. Coins! That is it. Over and aver again i have to explain myself just to never be heard. May be I should promote the hatred for slabs. It will be easier for me to buy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide Posted November 23, 2010 Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 I do not have nothing against the slabs. Less than never hatred the slabs. The thing that I do understand is like can to love a thing without to touch it (God is a religious fact, the slab hope not)…but also without to smell and, why not, without to kiss. How you would feel if the your woman were within a slab? Buy slabs, if that makes you feel peaceful and more safer, but, please, when you will alone with your coins free them from that orribile plastic covering and make the love with them! Make (numismatic) love, not (economic) war! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide Posted November 23, 2010 Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 corrige: The thing that I do not understand ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted November 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 You are right. It gives me enough money to spent it on proper coins in slabs. And not enough to waste on raw coins... I explained why! Over and over again people bring coins to a local dilers to get Krause prices minus %30 from the estates... Do you think its much better than bullion? Chinese collection recently... Amazing coins! I hope you bought some of these: Chinese coins (PCGS) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vit986 Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 I hope you bought some of these: Chinese coins (PCGS) Excuse me? Are you all right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted November 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 Excuse me? Are you all right? They're slabbed, aren't they? Just kidding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 Bob, don't make these jokes ... someone could die David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vit986 Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 You are really find it funny? And how it is related to the conversation? Or coins? Or slabs? If your plastic toilet seat is made in China it's suppose to be related to coins somehow... I see... And I should probably hope that you will fall thru some day... Right? Very funny joke, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 Vit, don't angry, life wants a bit of irony. And the numismatic is life! Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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