American jailed for 3 years for trying to take 2 coins out of Russia

[alexbq2]

Gees, back on topic folks:

 

Nice coin! If that guy was trying to smuggle a piece like that he deserves his jail sentence! Just kidding...

[vit986]

Wow! Now anti-American sentiments are brought to English speaking numismatic forum… I find it kind of offensive. Especially after very thorough and respectful BKB’s reply...

 

Is it hard to understand that most people are simply don’t care what is going on in Russia? As for me the most important things are the Russian Empire coins. They do just happen to be the topic of my interest.

 

Russian forums are filled up with anti-American hatred an demagogy... Do we need it here?

 

Who cares that I think that Russia itself ended in 1917? That illegitimate criminally inclined territorial misunderstanding ruled by the corrupted power hungry degenerates and populated by the millions of REAL slaves occupied the territory of the Great Empire? Anybody cares? I doubt that…

 

“And you are all noble knights bringing light of democracy to all the world and teaching everyone valuable ideas...”

 

It's ironic¸ but this is actually the only thing that I would agree with about Americans… Close enough for me. Anybody does it better? Than who IS it than? Nobody is perfect...

[one-kuna]

You're right.

For example, an exception is that USSR invaded Afghanistan in 1979, and USA only in 2001.

Or another exception: Russia abolished slavery in 1861 and USA 4 years later - and it required a Civil War.

Also, Russia stopped capital punishment in 1999, while USA is only Western "democracy" which continue to legally kill own citizen.

USA is one of only 5 countries of the world where a minor can be sentenced to death - being a member of nice company together with Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

And USA is the only country in the world where a mental patient can be sentenced to death.

thank you for sharing your opinion which covers a short list of what I meant but did not mention; the rest of diffrences are counted of course to US favor, thank you

[grivna1726]

I believe, that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is a shame, that will haunt this country for years to come.

It seems to me that, no matter the country, every decent man is ashamed of his government.

[one-kuna]

thank you for sharing your opinion which covers a short list of what I meant but did not mention; the rest of diffrences are counted of course to US favor, thank you

just wanted to add something related to numismatics:

1.Russia had ridiculous restrictions on coin collectimg during soviets

2.Russia started the issue of proof coins seriously since late 1980s

3.because of unreasonably limitations and restrictions in coin collecting and museum researches, russia had very little numismatic literature during soviets while western counrties including US had thousands of titles and new editions; moreover, russia just started seriously with numismatic auctions since 1990's

[gxseries]

Guys, listen - I don't want to close this thread because I believe all of you are capable of doing reasonable intellectual discussion which may include politics. I don't mind some discussion being off topic as long as you are aware that this is a numismatics forum and not insult other people or their culture.

 

I personally find this thread interesting to read as there are good arguments but please - it's never nice to start fights.

[davidfo]

Are coins really cost less inside Russia?

[Saor Alba]

Are coins really cost less inside Russia?

 

 

As with most coins from around the world they usually cost less outside of the country of issue due to there being lower interests. The opposite WAS true in Russia until maybe the past ten years, now they are pricier in Russia than outside of the country. Russians leave the country on buying trips and buy up choice material in Europe and America now. I myself collect Ukrainian coins, and some Russian. But I find they are less expensive(if I can find them) in America or Europe than they are in Ukraine.

[Saor Alba]

[Loyal Citizen]

just wanted to add something related to numismatics:

1.Russia had ridiculous restrictions on coin collectimg during soviets

I do not think this is a correct statement. Restrictions only applied to the coin dealing, not collecting.

I started collecting when I was 7 year old and never had any issues.

2.Russia started the issue of proof coins seriously since late 1980s

Another incorrect/incomplete statement. What is "serious" here ? Just look at the XIX century - all kinds of proofs can be found there. However, if you meant "USSR" instead of "Russia" you should have stated so. Even in this case, you are wrong. Famous Moscow Olympic sets were issued well before "late 1980s".

3.because of unreasonably limitations and restrictions in coin collecting and museum researches, russia had very little numismatic literature during soviets while western counrties including US had thousands of titles and new editions; moreover, russia just started seriously with numismatic auctions since 1990's

I agree - the sources were limited. One can count very few numismatic books published during 1917-1990. The auctions were symbols of capitalism - that was the reason to prohibit them inside the USSR. However, the Soviet government participated actively in selling and buying abroad. We know many examples and I do not want to repeat them again.

[alexbq2]

No, I'm fond of animals.

But I disagree with people who often value animal more than human.

 

I think you are ok with your wife's jewelery:

"You may import an object made of ivory if it is an antique. To be an antique the ivory must be at least 100 years old. You will need documentation that authenticates the age of the ivory. You may import other antiques containing wildlife parts with the same condition, but they must be accompanied by documentation proving they are at least 100 years old. Certain other requirements for antiques may apply."

[Saor Alba]

Gentlemen and Ladies, this is a discussion forum - not a place to insult or provoke others. If you do not like the discussion or agree with someone else and cannot be civil about it and at least respect the other person - perhaps you need to ignore the other person - not post a response - and move on.

 

[alexbq2]

 

That's a good looking coin! For some reason 1912 5 kopeeks is not easy to find in high grade.

[BKB]

I left that wonderful country of his in 1993, and I am happy I did it. Thus, I know what I am talking about, when I speak about that part of the world. And it is not book knowledge. GX, please kill this topic, before it completely flies off the handle...

[Saor Alba]

I left that wonderful country of his in 1993, and I am happy I did it. Thus, I know what I am talking about, when I speak about that part of the world. And it is not book knowledge. GX, please kill this topic, before it completely flies off the handle...

 

 

No BK, lets keep it on topic. BTW, bought from a forum member in Europe, that coin is one I wanted for a long time and he happened to find one that was not only a bit scarcer date but a nice grade and in an unusual place.

 

I want people to act like mature adults and stop bickering. We wouldn't be arguing if we were all in the pub downing Baltika - we would be yapping coins - moneti!

[Maya]

 

 

 

 

GX, please kill this topic!

Is there any way we could keep this topic and stop the insults? I like Saor Alba's suggestion even though it may be impractical. Perhaps the offensive statements could be edited out?

Does anyone have any updates on the fate of the poor misguided master criminal? Is he really in prison for three years? Or is there going to be an appeal?

[alexbq2]

Is there any way we could keep this topic and stop the insults? I like Saor Alba's suggestion even though it may be impractical. Perhaps the offensive statements could be edited out?

Does anyone have any updates on the fate of the poor misguided master criminal? Is he really in prison for three years? Or is there going to be an appeal?

 

There is going to be an appeal. That's is all I could get from the media.

 

I'm wrong. Not an appeal, but some sort of a complaint to reduce sentence.

http://www.interfax.ru/news.asp?id=162443

[one-kuna]

I do not think this is a correct statement. Restrictions only applied to the coin dealing, not collecting.

I started collecting when I was 7 year old and never had any issues.

 

Another incorrect/incomplete statement. What is "serious" here ? Just look at the XIX century - all kinds of proofs can be found there. However, if you meant "USSR" instead of "Russia" you should have stated so. Even in this case, you are wrong. Famous Moscow Olympic sets were issued well before "late 1980s".

 

I agree - the sources were limited. One can count very few numismatic books published during 1917-1990. The auctions were symbols of capitalism - that was the reason to prohibit them inside the USSR. However, the Soviet government participated actively in selling and buying abroad. We know many examples and I do not want to repeat them again.

Foreword: very surpized that some words came not from candidate

Then,

1.Living in very small russian (former russian, or former soviet) cities sometimes completely bypassed such issues as silver/gold/platinum collecting

2.Olimpic wasn't considered because majority of russian population were not able to get it and it was generally dedicated to one event (all my statements reffered to soviets, then by name russians, - simply comes from context)

3.unfortunately to oppose this statement ONE need to be familiar with the hundreds of auctions which took place in soviet union, for example early time 1927 - 1933, and this can be found in my new coming book

[Candidate]

I think you are ok with your wife's jewelery:

"You may import an object made of ivory if it is an antique. To be an antique the ivory must be at least 100 years old. You will need documentation that authenticates the age of the ivory. You may import other antiques containing wildlife parts with the same condition, but they must be accompanied by documentation proving they are at least 100 years old. Certain other requirements for antiques may apply."

It's same about 1924 rouble: just get the paper from Rosokrhankultura that it is not a "cultural value" - and you can export it freely.

[Candidate]

There is going to be an appeal. That's is all I could get from the media.

 

I'm wrong. Not an appeal, but some sort of a complaint to reduce sentence.

http://www.interfax.ru/news.asp?id=162443

Here's brief translation of his lawyer's words: "He (Kravtsov) bought these coins at market as souvenirs, did not intend to hide them, just threw into his suitcase".

I think it is wrong position - to try to prove that this guy did not mean to smuggle coins, just forgot to (or did not know that he should) declare them at customs.

I think that much better move would be to prove that these coins are not a "cultural value", thus taking them out from Russia was not a crime at all.

For this he would only need to find another, more qualified expert(s) and present other opinion to court.

[gxseries]

Mate, it's called progress and regress. From what I see, Russia is either going in a regress stage or decides to stay the same since the Soviet era. This is 2010, not 1950s. It's ok to keep a set of laws that were applicable years ago but times change. When times change, cultures change and situations change. Nothing stays the same. Every now and then, laws should be reviewed and check if they are applicable in today's world. Are you afraid of changes?

 

This is not a discussion about America versus Russia. This is about how one nation should keep up with her laws against the changing times. History is something that one is to take and learn past mistakes and do something about it. Sure you can always talk about slavery in the US but has America learnt from her lessons? Yes, it's probably one of the world's biggest nation of multiculturism and continues to draw talents. History is not something where you display in museums and brag about it while ignoring reality. Some day, this will be part of history and you might play a role in it as well.

 

This forum is not for the ground of the battle of "I must defend my motherland" nonsense either. I believed you all are at least capable of discussing laws and politics and talk about the pros and cons. But no, it always have to be a competition of who's superior. Reality: there's always flaws and the person who's unable to take criticisms unfortunately aren't that perfect either. If you acknowledge that nothing in the world is perfect, you imply that there's always room for improvement. Laws are no exception.

 

My decision for not closing the thread earlier is because if I do slam the door early, I would be insulting those who are contributing or trying their best to make a good discussion. But it seems I have been too optimistic or unrealistic.

 

Will be reviewing a couple more replies and this thread should be locked for good or other moderators will take action beforehand.

[grivna1726]

Well, the Olympic coins were available to the public in mid 1980s in the USSR. They were sold in the state jewelry stores for 50 and 100 rubles (correspondingly for 5 and 10 silver rubles). I bought my first Olympic proof coins this way in 1985. I did not see gold and platinum coins for sale, though.

Thank you for your reply and firsthand information.

 

Does anyone know if Moscow Olympic coins in gold, platinum or other non-silver precious metals were available to collectors in the Soviet Union? I had thought that only the base metal coins were offered there but I was obviously mistaken, at least in the case of the silver pieces.

[alexbq2]

It's same about 1924 rouble: just get the paper from Rosokrhankultura that it is not a "cultural value" - and you can export it freely.

 

I don't understand. If an expert from Rosokrhankultura can certify these coins as not Cultural Valuables, why can't the same expert testify that they are not Cultural Valuables during the trial. In fact the expert at the trial indicated that these coins are Cultural Valuables as they can be used to study coin production at the turn of the century?

[Candidate]

I don't understand. If an expert from Rosokrhankultura can certify these coins as not Cultural Valuables, why can't the same expert testify that they are not Cultural Valuables during the trial. In fact the expert at the trial indicated that these coins are Cultural Valuables as they can be used to study coin production at the turn of the century?

Exactly.

I mentioned same, but in other words - please re-read my post #86 above.

The prosecution picked the local expert which gave them the conclusion which they wanted to hear.

The lawyer should have invited more qualified expert.

[akdrv]

Thread closed. I removed some posts.

 

If anyone is interested in continuing political discussions please do so in the Debates forum (available under Community forums by subscription).

 

I know that sometimes it's difficult to avoid getting into a heated argument, but the coin forum is not the place for it.