bobh Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 I have the 2008 edition; before that, I got along with the 2005 edition very well. They updated and added a lot of material between 2005-2008, especially in modern commemorative and colonial coins as well as more pictures and tables for some Hard Times and Civil War tokens. But as far as pricing goes, I found that I could buy a lot of stuff in 2008 at 2005 prices, so I wonder what the optimal "rhythm" for buying the Yeoman "Red Book" would be? I know that a lot of people actually collect them and thus buy each new edition ... but I'm more interested in the practical aspects. And, of course, the red book is only one of many guides I consult. Thanks for any suggestions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 I find the Red Book useful for a few things but pricing isn't one of them. It's great for a view of what is contained in a particular series, including major varieties. The articles are first rate if you want a quickly look at something they've covered. I do a lot of checkoff and note things in my book and so I really don't want to update it very often -- too much recopy. I used to have a nice collection of Red Books but decided that I didn't really need another thing to hunt and pull funds from my coin collecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedeadpoint Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Ditto to what Art said. I do put some weight on the values as they are in the ballpark mostly. The Red Book is still what I like to pick up when I am thinking of a new series or how to approach my collecting. Sometimes I just open it to drool over the images. I think 2008 is the last time I bought a Red Book. As for buying the 2010? I'll probably hold off this year for the reasons both of you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoneyeagles Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Well, no updated mintages on modern bullion, like the buffalos.... Would be nice if they included the FIRST STRIKE PCGS numbers in there...LOL What is the point of getting a red book, really? Wouldn't you rather just print off the newest GREYSHEET, and look near wholesale prices, and try to pay somewhere near that.... I bought last years redbook.... I liked reading it, and I learned a lot from it... It helps you grade coins, pretty accurately...And is a good source, but when it comes down to buying the coins, and looking at a reference, if you are at home, on the computer, just used heritage and ebay's completed listings! If you are out and about, then yeah, I'd still think about the greysheet, but the redbook can help newer and older collectors, who want to pay near retail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMS Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 The whole point of any published "price guide" is current/historic speculation. One of the many aspects of a collector is speculation. To even know what a fair price would be to begin with for any coin in your specialty, you would have to do an analysis of prices realized, as well as get the opinion of experts and their speculation on the market. That's where "price guides" come into play. A "price guide" is simply a speculation on a certain market. The Red Book is a speculation on the retail coin market. Historic prices and trends are considered, along with current realizations in the market, and a speculative price is given for what a specific coin in a particular grade MAY average on the retail market. It's all speculation. The Red Book is a good start for the collector to utilize for their own speculations on the market in helping them to determine a fair price for any coin they may consider for their collection. It's all about "doing your homework". Naturally, a collector is not a professional analyst, but it is most definitely one of the many aspects of being a collector. That is why I believe that $1.50/month is quite a bargain for expert speculation that may be utilized to make my own speculations on the market and determine when and when not to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vfox Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 The redbook is a good reference guide, and that is it. I get the US coin digest instead, it's about the same price ($15) and is spiral bound. But like all things, it's just a recopied version from previous years with added fluff from the new coin series. The last one I purchased was 2007's and I was fine with it, I just happened to have had a 40% off coupon from borders and liked that they updated for more current gold prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 The redbook is a good reference guide, and that is it. I get the US coin digest instead, it's about the same price ($15) and is spiral bound. But like all things, it's just a recopied version from previous years with added fluff from the new coin series. The last one I purchased was 2007's and I was fine with it, I just happened to have had a 40% off coupon from borders and liked that they updated for more current gold prices. Good point. That reminds me that I have a coupon someplace for Barnes & Noble -- maybe 30% off. I don't remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Frankly all the Redbook, PCGS Price guides etc. are relative. Reality is the market, and it is not always reflected in price guides. I have bought stuff significantly over and under price guides based more on market conditions and less on what some price guide, like the Redbook that was set in type months ago reflects. The Redbook is a great guide, but prices are really only a suggestion in there, unfortunately many less accomplished in the numismatic venue think they can really get those prices listed there for well worn out coins with common dates and mintmarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedeadpoint Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Well, no updated mintages on modern bullion, like the buffalos....Would be nice if they included the FIRST STRIKE PCGS numbers in there...LOL What is the point of getting a red book, really? Wouldn't you rather just print off the newest GREYSHEET, and look near wholesale prices, and try to pay somewhere near that.... I bought last years redbook.... I liked reading it, and I learned a lot from it... It helps you grade coins, pretty accurately...And is a good source, but when it comes down to buying the coins, and looking at a reference, if you are at home, on the computer, just used heritage and ebay's completed listings! If you are out and about, then yeah, I'd still think about the greysheet, but the redbook can help newer and older collectors, who want to pay near retail A few comments - re: First Strike # - I hope you're joking. I think First Strike anything is the biggest crock in the coin industry. re: GREYSHEET - I've been collecting for about 15 years now and I don't know where to find a greysheet or how much they costs. I don't care. re: grading coins - good point. Forgot about that very helpful aspect of the Red Book. I don't know anywhere online that tells me simple ways to grade coins on series I'm not familiar with. Very helpful. re: Heritage - I use it to find recent trends right before I go to a show but that website is only helpful for high grade high value coins and if you happen to know exactly what you're looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 A few comments - re: First Strike # - I hope you're joking. I think First Strike anything is the biggest crock in the coin industry. re: GREYSHEET - I've been collecting for about 15 years now and I don't know where to find a greysheet or how much they costs. I don't care. re: grading coins - good point. Forgot about that very helpful aspect of the Red Book. I don't know anywhere online that tells me simple ways to grade coins on series I'm not familiar with. Very helpful. re: Heritage - I use it to find recent trends right before I go to a show but that website is only helpful for high grade high value coins and if you happen to know exactly what you're looking for. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoneyeagles Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 A few comments - re: First Strike # - I hope you're joking. I think First Strike anything is the biggest crock in the coin industry. re: GREYSHEET - I've been collecting for about 15 years now and I don't know where to find a greysheet or how much they costs. I don't care. re: grading coins - good point. Forgot about that very helpful aspect of the Red Book. I don't know anywhere online that tells me simple ways to grade coins on series I'm not familiar with. Very helpful. re: Heritage - I use it to find recent trends right before I go to a show but that website is only helpful for high grade high value coins and if you happen to know exactly what you're looking for. Yes, I'm being funny about the First Strike....But it can be looked at seriously First Strike is bullcrap, and if you have a coin with first strike, and one without, and take them both outta the holder, IT IS THE SAME COIN...So yes, bullcrap, crocksh**! Go to greysheet.com You don't care? I sure do... I want to get things near wholesale...Sign me up...Give me bluebook, greysheet, numismedia's wholesale prices, all this helps... Recently I bought a quarter eagle, 1911 AU58. Wholesale is $235, I believe, retail is $300... I'd rather pay close to RETAIL than wholesale, you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoneyeagles Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 The first strike label, little $12 label, or whatever it costs, can get you more money... Shoot, if I can get a coin from the us mint, fast enough, pay that little fee for a label, then, sell at thigh price once the First Strike population is realized, SIGN ME UP It is just another way to make money...Lots of money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vfox Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 The first strike label, little $12 label, or whatever it costs, can get you more money...Shoot, if I can get a coin from the us mint, fast enough, pay that little fee for a label, then, sell at thigh price once the First Strike population is realized, SIGN ME UP It is just another way to make money...Lots of money... One of the problems between old collectors and new sentimentality is this "money money" aspect of coin grading. Seriously, this is not meant to offend, but if you're in it for the money, you're not a coin collector, you're a just an investor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stilson Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 My main reason for getting new red books. Having an up to date coin list. Marking up the pages to show what I have. For me this is an easy way of going to the coin shop or where ever and knowing what I already have. Plus for me is a decent general price guide. Note I did not say absolute price guide. It at least gives you an idea if its a tough coin or common. I don't think I could find anything even data base print outs which would give me both. Also if I went with a program every time or so a I got a new coin or two I would not care to print out another list to bring along. Only pain with doing it like this. Every year I go through my old book and transpose what I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoneyeagles Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 One of the problems between old collectors and new sentimentality is this "money money" aspect of coin grading. Seriously, this is not meant to offend, but if you're in it for the money, you're not a coin collector, you're a just an investor. I have no intention of being in it for the money... I have a great passion for coins, and it is my favorite thing to do... But here is the thing..If there is an opportunity, for YOU TO MAKE MONEY...MAKE PROFITS...AND BUY COINS YOU WANT...How does that not make me a collector? I like coin collecting, but if I can make a buck here and there, to buy coins I really want, that is what I'll do... Lots of people do that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoneyeagles Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Buy coin for lets say $50 at mint... Spend some $40 getting it graded... Total $90... Wait until numbers are realized and released, when they are hot, sell em'. Lets say you sell for $300... $200, maybe a little less, due to fees, of a profit, in the bank ready to go, so you can save up and get you that coin you really want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vfox Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Buy coin for lets say $50 at mint...Spend some $40 getting it graded... Total $90... Wait until numbers are realized and released, when they are hot, sell em'. Lets say you sell for $300... $200, maybe a little less, due to fees, of a profit, in the bank ready to go, so you can save up and get you that coin you really want This is true, and you can make money doing it. But this way of thinking is what causes these slab happy investors and speculators to ruin what numismatics is all about. It's, as you said in your previous post, about the passion for the coins, not making money on some poor sap who doesn't know better. I guess for me it's an ethical issue. I wouldn't want to spend a hundred dollars more than the coin is worth just because I didn't know better. Because of that, I wouldn't feel right making a profit from someone like that. I don't make much money on my coins, sometimes I even lose money, but if I can spread my enthusiasm for coins to others, I feel it's completely worth it. Getting back on topic. Mark, I made an excel sheet for all coins issued under the US mint from 1792 to current, it's basically what you use the redbook for. If you're interested I could email it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmoneyeagles Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 This is true, and you can make money doing it. But this way of thinking is what causes these slab happy investors and speculators to ruin what numismatics is all about. It's, as you said in your previous post, about the passion for the coins, not making money on some poor sap who doesn't know better. I guess for me it's an ethical issue. I wouldn't want to spend a hundred dollars more than the coin is worth just because I didn't know better. Because of that, I wouldn't feel right making a profit from someone like that. I don't make much money on my coins, sometimes I even lose money, but if I can spread my enthusiasm for coins to others, I feel it's completely worth it. Yes, I try to spread my enthusiasm as well... Some people collect, to make money, some people collect because of the history, I do it because it makes me happy... I get so giddy, when the mailman comes to the door, with an pink slip, I have to sign... And when I rip open that package....Oh boy.. Really, it is almost like, anything to make a few extra bucks, to get that happiness, you know? (I need more tribe members!) LOL The two quarter eagles, and one silver buffalo get lonely...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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