altyn Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 I have come across this slabbed coin with blacked out part of the slab information. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...E:X:RTQ:US:1123 When asked, the seller replied that its is a usual practice on eBay to black out the NGC code. I cannot think of any obvious reason to do so, unless to hide the origin of the slab. What do the others think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedeadpoint Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Either they're hiding signs of a forgery OR they are preventing forgeries. Think about it, if a forger made a slab and a label, they would need to provide a number/code. Someone could verify if the coin was legitimate by contacting NGC and providing a code? By hiding the code, I guess a forger can't pair up a similar version of your coin to a valid code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Shaver Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 I have dealt with this person with perfect results .. both buying and selling .. mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturzny Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 This seller may be OK but from my experience it is hardly a "usual" practice to black out the slab number. If you are going to do that thinking to prevent forgery you should black out the bar code as well. In fact there are many ways a forger can acquire a valid slab number including just being the high bidder and acquiring the piece, which they sometimes do. Most of the time I see blacked out slabs on eBay the slabs are highly suspicious, coins with obvious wear graded MS64 etc. Again, this is to say nothing against this particular seller who may be on the level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altyn Posted December 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 It is definitely not "usual" according to my own experience as well (that is why I asked the seller in the first place) and, provided the coin is fine, can only raise unnecessary suspicions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 It's a usual thing. Especially, if you are buying coins from dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturzny Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 I just ran a search on the US eBay for "PCGS" under Coins:World. I looked at the first 200 or so listings. Not a single one had a blacked out slab number. Some dealers may in fact adopt this practice but to call it "usual" is just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariba Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 At least, he did not black out the grade on that one. On this 1723 rouble, on the other hand, he would not even disclose the grade since he does not agree with it. Never seen that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 I just ran a search on the US eBay for "PCGS" under Coins:World. I looked at the first 200 or so listings. Not a single one had a blacked out slab number. Some dealers may in fact adopt this practice but to call it "usual" is just wrong. We are talking here about Russian coins. Perhaps, you are not very familiar with dealers who deal with Russian coins. At least, in 2004-2005, it was a usual practice. I have personally purchased a couple of coins at Ebay with blacked out slab numbers. What is the big deal about it? People are buying coins, not numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 At least, he did not black out the grade on that one. On this 1723 rouble, on the other hand, he would not even disclose the grade since he does not agree with it. Never seen that before. I would not buy anything from this seller. That is what we call in Russia "набивает цену хламу". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altyn Posted December 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 We are talking here about Russian coins. Perhaps, you are not very familiar with dealers who deal with Russian coins. At least, in 2004-2005, it was a usual practice. I have personally purchased a couple of coins at Ebay with blacked out slab numbers. What is the big deal about it? People are buying coins, not numbers. When one buys a slabbed coin, one pays for the slab (and the slabbing) as well. You would want it intact with all the information clearly visible. Otherwise, how would you know that a particular slab belongs to a particular coin? Knowing the number, it would be possible to find out. So, blackening out is a damaging practice that destroys some potentially useful information in attempt of preventing it from being abused. And this is the first Russian slabbed coin with a blacked out number that I have noticed over the period of a few months. Apparently what was usual in 2004-05 is not usual any more. Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 So I guess no one knows why some people remove (black out) slab number on their listings since there is no correct answer in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariba Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 So I guess no one knows why some people remove (black out) slab number on their listings since there is no correct answer in this thread. One possibility, more applicable to an auction house sale than to eBay, that comes to mind (after NGSA 5 where a few Russian coins that sold for 5-6 figures got rejected by NGC before the auction & the catalogue had hardly more than "Superbe") is that the seller submitted this coin to NGC together with some other coins which got bodybagged and now he is selling them all at the same time. Looking up the certificate number of a slabbed coin will not get us much additional info, but looking up other numbers in the same batch can tell things like: Certification # XXXXXXX-XXX Date / Info 1896 RUSSIA Denomination 25R Grade MS Pedigree GENEVENSIS V Strike No Grade Comment REV RIM FILE Population See NGC poplookup NumisMedia Value No Price 1191 25 Roubles en or 1896. Même type que précédemment, mais sans la valeur en francs. 32,27g. Severin 555; Fr. 171. Très rare. 300 exemplaires frappés. Superbe exemplaire sur fl an bruni. 100’000.- Tout comme la monnaie précédente, cette pièce de 25 roubles ou 2,5 impériale ne fut émise qu’en quantités extrêmement limitées et à deux reprises seulement, en 1896 et 1908. Son poids correspond également aux pièces de 100 francs de l’Union Monétaire Latine. Sa valeur affi chée de 25 roubles fait référence à un étalon monétaire antérieur à la réforme de Sergei Vitte. Sold for CHF 220'000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Right, this is why some people do not want to publicly disclose slab number. Using this number it is possible to find out what were all other coins submitted on invoice. If someone owns some rare coins certified together and just selling one of them on e-bay that person may be does not want others to find out what are the other coins in his possession. Is there anything wrong with this? I do not think so. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennysky Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 Unless one works for NGC, it would not be possible to find out other coins submitted. If one works for NGC, this info is available regardless. Right, this is why some people do not want to publicly disclose slab number. Using this number it is possible to find out what were all other coins submitted on invoice. If someone owns some rare coins certified together and just selling one of them on e-bay that person may be does not want others to find out what are the other coins in his possession. Is there anything wrong with this? I do not think so. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariba Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 Unless one works for NGC, it would not be possible to find out other coins submitted. If one works for NGC, this info is available regardless. It is definitely possible; the URL is https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/co...cert/Index.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 I would not buy anything from this seller. That is what we call in Russia "набивает цену хламу". I agree. I wouldn't buy from any seller who covers or hides things when selling an item, especially coins. And since Russian coins are among the most highly counterfeited in the market, this would just raise my suspicions further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRnholio Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 I can see why a seller would want to black out the serial number on a slab in a public auction like this. With the small number of slabbed Russian coins, it is probably quite hard for the Chinese counterfeiters to find legit certification numbers for their slabs. If the cert # is only known to the seller and the winner/recipient of the auction, then it helps keep the legitimacy of the NGC slabs. The winner can always look up the cert # themselves once they receive it to make sure it is legit, and then return it if needed. Given that this seller has great feedback, I would feel alright buying this item from them if it was what I was into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monetka Posted December 25, 2008 Report Share Posted December 25, 2008 It is definitely not "usual" according to my own experience as well (that is why I asked the seller in the first place) and, provided the coin is fine, can only raise unnecessary suspicions. 1. I dealt with this person too. Everything is OK. 2. Yet another reason to hide NGC number/bar code, is to allow those who BUY this coin for a re-sale, to better cover up their source. Don't forget that most people who buy on eBay, especially those from Russia, buy coins for immediate or almost immediate re-sale. 3. One more possible reason. Should it be somehow obvious that the person who sells the slab is also the person who submitted the coin for grading, by covering NGC number seller also automatically covers NGC invoice number. By doing so he/she prevents general public from a possibility to track down all other coins submitted on the very same NGC invoice. And one can come up with multiple reasons and/or situations as to why you want to keep that information private. You do the exercise, and list as many as you can, if you like... IMHO, if you are too concerned just about that number on the slab, presuming you are seriously thinking if you should bid, you can simply ask the seller, instead of wasting your time by writing multiple posts about being "suspicious" here. I am not trying to offend anyone here. Just expressing my personal point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH7 Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 I have come across this slabbed coin with blacked out part of the slab information. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...E:X:RTQ:US:1123 When asked, the seller replied that its is a usual practice on eBay to black out the NGC code. I cannot think of any obvious reason to do so, unless to hide the origin of the slab. What do the others think? I would have guessed that the bar code would contain the NGC code somewhere. I guess I don't know that, but are you sure it doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RARENUM Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 I have come across this slabbed coin with blacked out part of the slab information. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...E:X:RTQ:US:1123 When asked, the seller replied that its is a usual practice on eBay to black out the NGC code. I cannot think of any obvious reason to do so, unless to hide the origin of the slab. What do the others think? I have blacked slab number for coins on sale couple times to prevent publicity to other coins submitted on the NGC invoices (about 100 coins listed on one invoice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altyn Posted January 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 I have blacked slab number for coins on sale couple times to prevent publicity to other coins submitted on the NGC invoices (about 100 coins listed on one invoice) Many thanks to all for your input. Now I see the legitimate reasons I was not aware of before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheburgen Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Well, I see it now again It's is good, though, the guy is showing the grade on the slab and his name. Good advertising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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