sigistenz Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Hi. I have been intrigued by Bitkin's pictures of the 5kop1803EM Bitkin 287 common and Bitkin 288 RRR. Even after staring for minutes I cannot discern any significant difference. Now both are being pictured in the fortcoming Gorny&Mosch auction as #8509 Bitkin 287 and #8510 Bitkin 288 RRR. Again I do not see any distinct difference between the two. Does anyone know better? How to recognize the rare one? Thank you, Sigi link to the Gorny & Mosch sale: http://www.gmcoinart.de/shop/index.php3?AuID=88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RARENUM Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Hi. I have been intrigued by Bitkin's pictures of the 5kop1803EM Bitkin 287 common and Bitkin 288 RRR. Even after staring for minutes I cannot discern any significant difference. Now both are being pictured in the fortcoming Gorny&Mosch auction as #8509 Bitkin 287 and #8510 Bitkin 288 RRR. Again I do not see any distinct difference between the two. Does anyone know better? How to recognize the rare one? Thank you, Sigi link to the Gorny & Mosch sale: http://www.gmcoinart.de/shop/index.php3?AuID=88 Looks like Auctioneer error, 2 common coins Bit.-287. Rarenum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Hi Sigi! I am having problems viewing the G&M website right now, but my computer is problematic lately. However, I am looking at the Bitkin photos, eagle type 2 compared with type 2.1, and the differences appear to be the size of the eagle is overal a bit larger on the 2.1, the coat of arms sheild is larger, the orb is a larger (would be hard to tell with out looking side by side) and the pattern of feathers is different, more "fluffy" I think, and arcing upward with a bit more curve, than the type 2. both are close enough that the 2.1 could be mistaken for type 2, unless a comparison was available side by side. Bitkin 287 is type 2. eagle, Bitkin 288 is type 2.1 eagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Was able to check from home computer... I agree with Rarenum. slight difference in feathers, but not the same as Bitkins photo. wow.. quite a hoard of nice coins in this auction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 I'm very curious to see this coin, but the link takes me to a page that just has this: " EUROPA 8001 - 9307 ORDEN, EHRENZEICHEN UND ABZEICHEN 9308 - 9311 EUROPA 9312 - 9402 NUMISMATISCHE LITERATUR 9403 - 9409" Could somebody please point me to this coin? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Found it: http://www.gmcoinart.de/shop/detailansicht...p;refresh_nav=1 Here are the 2 eagles side by side. The left one is what auctioneer says is Bitkin 2.1. Looks a lot like it to me as well. But on the second thought I'm not sure. I looked at the 2 1803 EMs that I got lying around, and one of the eagles looks just like the left one. Note, the main distinction that I see is that the right wing looks more upcurved, and a feather from the second row sticks up as well. Bitkin image has very little space between the orb and the bottom feathers though. Here are mine: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted September 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Found it: http://www.gmcoinart.de/shop/detailansicht...p;refresh_nav=1 Here are the 2 eagles side by side. The left one is what auctioneer says is Bitkin 2.1. Looks a lot like it to me as well. But on the second thought I'm not sure. I looked at the 2 1803 EMs that I got lying around, and one of the eagles looks just like the left one. Note, the main distinction that I see is that the right wing looks more upcurved, and a feather from the second row sticks up as well. Bitkin image has very little space between the orb and the bottom feathers though. Hi Alex and Josh, the 2 below are mine. There were slight differences in the dies at the time. Note that one of mine has the thick tail of the rare coin, the other has the narrower tail of the common one. What are my coins, the rare or the common variants? Thank you, Sigi By sigistenz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 (images snipped...) Here are the 2 eagles side by side. The left one is what auctioneer says is Bitkin 2.1. Looks a lot like it to me as well. But on the second thought I'm not sure. I looked at the 2 1803 EMs that I got lying around, and one of the eagles looks just like the left one. Note, the main distinction that I see is that the right wing looks more upcurved, and a feather from the second row sticks up as well. Bitkin image has very little space between the orb and the bottom feathers though. The eagle's right wing, from the point of view of the observer, is shaped slightly differently in these varieties. Also, there is a difference in size of the two smaller crowns, and the cross of the larger crown seems to touch the innermost circle in one (not sure which is which, though). There are also two other varieties with the older reverse but the same two different eagle obverses (i.e., no dot after the date). If there is no dot after the date, then you can rule out both Bitkin 287 and 288. But I assume that everyone here probably knows that already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitkin Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Hi everybody. Concerning the difference between two types of coins. You can easily check it by measuring the diameter of innermost circles on both coins - it should be 33 mm on rare one and 30 mm on regular one. Concerning Gorny & Mosch there is an error, Rarenum is right. With respect, V.V. Bitkin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Hi everybody. Concerning the difference between two types of coins. You can easily check it by measuring the diameter of innermost circles on both coins - it should be 33 mm on rare one and 30 mm on regular one. Concerning Gorny & Mosch there is an error, Rarenum is right.With respect, V.V. Bitkin. Thank You! I thought there was something funny about all of us having the R3 coin, and I'm fairly sure that our coins are more or less the same variety as the auctioneers coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 It is interesting to note this coin did not appear in any of the Aalborg sales, or Brekke's. In fact the coin is not listed in Brekke. It must be a VERY rare type, indeed. I am curious if anyone has an example, or auction reference, (other than the illustration of eagle 2.1 in Bitkin?) of this variant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 It is interesting to note this coin did not appear in any of the Aalborg sales, or Brekke's. In fact the coin is not listed in Brekke. It must be a VERY rare type, indeed. I am curious if anyone has an example, or auction reference, (other than the illustration of eagle 2.1 in Bitkin?) of this variant. There was one is sale 49 of "Moneti i Medali" in Moscow in March 2008. Lot 288. It brought ~$4000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 There was one is sale 49 of "Moneti i Medali" in Moscow in March 2008. Lot 288. It brought ~$4000. Thank you IgorS! Wow, 4000. what was the condition of the coin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Thank you IgorS! Wow, 4000. what was the condition of the coin? In the catalog they call it about XF. This coin was also offered in their earlier auction - 39 (October 2006). It had a higher estimate ($5500 - $6000) and did not sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted September 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Hi everybody. Concerning the difference between two types of coins. You can easily check it by measuring the diameter of innermost circles on both coins - it should be 33 mm on rare one and 30 mm on regular one. Concerning Gorny & Mosch there is an error, Rarenum is right.With respect, V.V. Bitkin. Hello and welcome, Mr Bitkin! Thank you for the information. Both my 5kop1803EM measure only 30mm within the inner circle. Too bad. It is good to know that you are with us now! Sigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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