squirrel Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 fake. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=270187647916 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaE Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 As almost any other coin sold by this seller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Julian Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 fake. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=270187647916 I looked at this piece and compared it to the 7 illustrations on hand in my database. The main crowns at the top of both obverse and reverse seem different. The other problem is the M of KM which seems somewhat badly formed compared to those on hand. RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 On the fake, the mintmaster initials P. B. angle in toward the eagles tail. I beleive on the geniune coin they should be vertical, and tucked in tighter to the tail of the eagle. Is this the case with any of your database images, RWJ, or is this a true variant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Julian Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 On the fake, the mintmaster initials P. B. angle in toward the eagles tail. I beleive on the geniune coin they should be vertical, and tucked in tighter to the tail of the eagle. Is this the case with any of your database images, RWJ, or is this a true variant? I just checked all 7 illustrations and for each the mintmaster initials are at the same location and angle as on the eBay piece. The problems I have with the M of KM and the crowns could be due to die wear so in all fairness I cannot declare this a fake. But then I am not certain that it is genuine. Moreover, a seller from Israel does not inspire great confidence. RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 a quick check on molotok.ru shows a number of what seems to be this same fake. Here is one from molotok, that is a bit different.. described as mintmaster initials "priama" or straight. I have one like this in my collection. I will dig for it and post a pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 This is mine, with the straight mintmaster marks. Would any of you coinpeople with a Bitkin on hand see if this is a listed variant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Another example here: I think BKB had a stunning example somewhere as well. As for the above coin mentioned, I am not too sure if I will agree if it's a fake or not. This isn't something VERY RARE and even in that condition, I wouldn't even bother to pay more than 50USD. I didn't even spend that much on the coin that I've shown... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Another example here: I think BKB had an example somewhere as well. I have 19 examples of this coin in my database. None have lettering like the ebay piece. Even before comparing images, the letters do not look right at all to me...much too thin. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banivechi Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 At least the Sadagura coin Para 3 Dengi from this seller is ok, but the start price isn't 0.99... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilio Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Come on - this one is a normall - but well corroded piece.. I"ve see no reason to call that coin a fake. Different variant - may be, but NOT A FAKE. IMHO 100% genuine piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Come on - this one is a normall - but well corroded piece.. I"ve see no reason to call that coin a fake. Different variant - may be, but NOT A FAKE. IMHO 100% genuine piece. Basilio, which coin are you talking about? The 2K is not corroded, so perhaps you mean the Sadagura? That I agree with Banivechi...it looks genuine. The 2K does not. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Coin is original. There are 2 major variants -- straight PB and slanted PB. But, as I am planning to bid on this one, please continue thinking that it is a fake. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Coin is original. There are 2 major variants -- straight PB and slanted PB. But, as I am planning to bid on this one, please continue thinking that it is a fake. :-) No competition from over here...you're welcome to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Coin is original. There are 2 major variants -- straight PB and slanted PB. But, as I am planning to bid on this one, please continue thinking that it is a fake. :-) BKB, do you know how common/scarce the two variants are, relative to one another? On molotok.ru, there are no less than 20 of the slanted variety PB 1811 km, and 1 of the straight, listed as of last night. Is that about right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 I bet the coin from eBay is ok. Thin lettering is very common on the evenly corroded coins like on the eBay item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 BKB, do you know how common/scarce the two variants are, relative to one another? On molotok.ru, there are no less than 20 of the slanted variety PB 1811 km, and 1 of the straight, listed as of last night. Is that about right? I do not think that this is correct. I would say between 1 to 3 / 1 to 4 at best (IMXO). Due to the fact that mintages were huge, even at 1 to 10 the coin would still be common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 I bet the coin from eBay is ok. Thin lettering is very common on the evenly corroded coins like on the eBay item. The 19 images I have don't show this lettering. None of them. Some are corroded others aren't so I wouldn't say it's very common. Personally I don't like it. I didn't like it when I first saw it and I didn't like it after I compared it to others. But...that's all just my opinion, and I may well be wrong. It could be OK. It's still fun to discuss it. Squirrel...what say you? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 The 19 images I have don't show this lettering. None of them. Some are corroded others aren't so I wouldn't say it's very common. Personally I don't like it. I didn't like it when I first saw it and I didn't like it after I compared it to others. But...that's all just my opinion, and I may well be wrong. It could be OK. It's still fun to discuss it. Squirrel...what say you? Steve Steve, do your database images include any of the straight type PB? Are they all high grade? I just think something is fishy with the coin from Israel. Ive looked again at the molotok images of the various 1811 km pb 2 kopeks, and can unfortunately only observe (conclude?) that either: This is a well distributed copy, or a commonly available high grade coin. A few of the coins on molotok look to have the same suspicious corroded look (like fine sandblasting), and same funny toning, as the ebay coin, and the same skinny lettering you have observed. I agree this is not such a precious rarity as to warrant a fake, so i could be having a paranoia attack. It wouldnt be the first.. Good luck to BKB on the auction.. perhaps with coin in hand, we will have an answer. Indeed, fun to discuss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 Steve, do your database images include any of the straight type PB? Are they all high grade? Good luck to BKB on the auction.. perhaps with coin in hand, we will have an answer. Indeed, fun to discuss! I have a wide variety of grades, and I'm sure I have a whole lot more images of this coin waiting to be processed (I have a sizeable backlog). As far as relative scarcity of the types: I see 2 distinct positions for the PB I - PB extended 50% out from the tail feathers. II - PB 'tucked in' with the bottom of the letters flush with the bottom of the tail feathers. The count is TYPE I - 17 coins TYPE II - 2 coins so a ratio of 8:1 (albeit with limited statistics). The eBay piece is TYPE I. The Squirrel coin and Molotok example are Type II Including those we get a ratio of 18:4, or about 4:1, as per BKB. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 The Aalborg coin from the recent sale is here http://www.hoiland-stamps.dk/default.aspx?...;s=&c1=1001 TYPE I Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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