bahabully Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 The thread on auction house favorits brought this topic to mind while i was considering my favorit auction houses. (which are here, ebay, and HA). One of the attributes I considered was what I consider a steal deal,, or those coins that I can buy and sell immediately for 2x my cost. I'm guessing dealers do this for a living and get items from paid advertising, etc.... but us lil'ol' collectors generally don't do that. As a collector I do occasionally like to play the buy/sell game, but find it almost impossible to get coins that I can extract a profit from after sold in the short term. Anyway, I have done it a few times. Ebay - around 6 times, with my best deal netting around 4x what i paid, my worst around 2x. HA - once,, got a lot of 3 toned NGC MS65 mercs, sold 2 on ebay to net even and retained the prettiest one. CP - never,, but not as much volume here to review,,, however the knowledged gained here has enabled the aviodance of what I'd term the stupid tax (ie. - money lost on coins as one learns about the attributes of coins and what imparts value to them and what doesn't). Anyway - I know the dealers do it for a living, but i was wondering how many simple collectors occasionally play the coin flip game and thier thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 It's tempting, especially buying coins that can be resubmitted for a higher grade. Many dealers and advanced collectors make a considerable amount of money on this game. One of the fellows from a local club bought two Morgans at the January FUN show and turned them in April for more than 10k in profit. Not bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedeadpoint Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 I kinda want to buy multiple proof sets this year to do that. Keep one, sell the others. I'm in sort supplhy o money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bahabully Posted June 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 I kinda want to buy multiple proof sets this year to do that. Keep one, sell the others. I'm in sort supplhy o money I got 6 of the 2006 silver proof sets from the mint hoping to do that or hit an error.... no errors that I can find and am still watching ebay and waiting for them to start selling for a 20% premium so I can sell 5 to get 1 for free,,,,,, I think they might wind up in Xmas stockings in a few years as they appear to be flat or even abit down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedeadpoint Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 are you really having a hard time selling them for a premium? I see their values in price guides and in dealer's ads at huge markups. I always figured they went for 2x the moment they came out of the mint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burks Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 I've thought about it and done so. Not a big profit, roughly $75 so far. I've been searching for undergraded Mercs and Morgans for a while. Passed on a deal today that I'm kicking myself for. Blast white 45-S MS66 Merc for a good price. Extremely solid 66, shot at 67. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtryka Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 I used to trade Saints from Heritage to eBay, keep the nicest ones and sell the rest at profits to support my hobby. But once the market got hot, that dried up fast! The simple answer is to look for areas that people aren't paying much attention to, like large size currency. My last two great deals were in currency, one was a rare Friedberg number that netted my about 3x and the other was a changeover pair that netted me about 8x. Of course to realize those prices I'd have to sell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bahabully Posted June 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 are you really having a hard time selling them for a premium? I see their values in price guides and in dealer's ads at huge markups. I always figured they went for 2x the moment they came out of the mint. I just took a quick peek at what closed today on ebay. Here are the 1st three I bumped into: 38 plus 5 shipping, 6 bidders. 37.50 plus 6.95 shipping, 8 bidders. 39.99 by it now, 0 bidders. My cost was around 38 each for the 6 I got, so I need to sell 5 at around 46 per to keep the 6th for free.... doesn't look like they are getting anywhere near that right now.... might even be tough to sell them for what I gave the mint for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vfox Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 I used to do this with gold 4 ducats. I would buy one from my local dealer and sell it on ebay for $30-50 profit. I did this a few times, then the supply dried up. Then gold hit 500, then 600, then about 700 an ounce and they jumped way out of my price/play range. I stick to mid grade type coins and high grade (Au+ to Bu) common date junk silver to make any kind of profit anymore. And lately that's been drying up as well. I think the best thing I ever did was sit on some large sized currency over 10 years, and only sold it recently. It was before the currency market exploded, ah those were the days, unc black eagles for $50, and 35 and 57 silver certs for 1.10-1.15 regardless of condition and #. I wish I would have got more some of those, lol. I do remember buying a Vf black eagle for $14 though, good luck getting even a rag for that nowadays. A quick turnover for a nice profit just doesn't seem to happen with most coins. I think most of the profit I make comes from sitting on a coin for a few years, then selling it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedeadpoint Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 I think the best thing I ever did was sit on some large sized currency over 10 years, and only sold it recently. It was before the currency market exploded, ah those were the days, unc black eagles for $50, and 35 and 57 silver certs for 1.10-1.15 regardless of condition and #. I wish I would have got more some of those, lol. I do remember buying a Vf black eagle for $14 though, good luck getting even a rag for that nowadays. I wish I were in your shoes back then too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 I wish I were in your shoes back then too. Every coin and currency collector in history has these kind of stories to tell. So there are many many great bargains out there today. It's just a matter of finding them and having the foresight. Bowers has spent quite a few of his columns of late stressing the strength of the strike and the detail vs. the overall grade -- simply put eye appeal. I personnally believe that 1890 to 1909 IHCs in MS condition with strong strikes and no spots, crud, etc. are going to prove to be bargains in just a few years. Frankly even XF45 & AU IHCs will go up quite a bit in the near future. I also believe that the Lincoln series holds many great bargains in both the wheatie and memorial series. Jeffersons -- I'm finding it hard to find GEM BU war nickels. So I think that's another area to get and hold. Now only if I had some extra money........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedeadpoint Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Now only if I had some extra money........ See that's the problem. We all have our stories of cheaper days but the hobby has had a GIGANTIC boost in the last dozen or so years. Millions of new collectors came on the scene, demand soared, prices soared even higher. I highly doubt we'll ever see such a boom ever again in this hobby. The hobby will eventually be saturated by collectors, demand, supply, prices, etc. Suppose that price hike happens again for some reason. There are already few attractive, collectable, and AFFORDABLE series for collectors like me with a small budget. If the price hike comes, I won't be able to afford anythign but modern circulated coins. The hobby will go back to being the "Hobby of Kings." I agree that there are sleeper series and sets out there. Hopefully I've already got my hands on some of them. But I think the hobby needs other series to have significant devaluation to sustain a healthy collector base. Perhaps my Peace Dollars will one day be worht more than St. G's Double E's. Maybe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vfox Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Honestly, I am actually expecting a crash within the next 5-10 years. It's pretty much the market will be saturated with the new horrible coins, and everyone who jumped on the bandwagon to buy then and turn a profit will then realize that there are hundreds of millions of the same coin, in Bu, sitting in thousands of hands. Basically everyone will realize the boom is really a bust and things will drop off a bit. I don't see prices keeping at trends over the next few years, but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedeadpoint Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Honestly, I am actually expecting a crash within the next 5-10 years. It's pretty much the market will be saturated with the new horrible coins, and everyone who jumped on the bandwagon to buy then and turn a profit will then realize that there are hundreds of millions of the same coin, in Bu, sitting in thousands of hands. Basically everyone will realize the boom is really a bust and things will drop off a bit. I don't see prices keeping at trends over the next few years, but that's just me. Totally agree. I think the recent trend of variety hunting and VAMs will grow and have a healthy base over the next few years. Some of the varieties are already hitting the auction blog with big bidders after them but I don't think that trend can keep up for all series. Eventually someone will say "screw varieties, they take too much research and too much time and too much money. I just want a nice looking 1901-O Morgan." Kinda like the weird things you see written on slabs (DMPL, *STAR*, etc). Yes they're going for a premium now, but is the tag worth the extra moula? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostDutchman Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 as it is my living to flip coins I figured id chime in. I started flipping coins when I was 15. I started with errors as a lot of dealers don't really know a lot about them and you can get some good buys at shows to bring them home and sell to collectors of errors or on e bay. Trying to predict if a certain coin is a good coin to flip is the hard part. You have to pick something you know a lot about. The whole flipping game is knowing more then the guy before you. I recommend specializing. Know your investment forward and backwards.... If you know say... merc dimes and are a good grader and want to play the plastic game that is a way to make some money. But it is a gamble. Lately I have noticed that the grading services are getting soft on common coins. For example... I sent in 4 common date solid MS65 walking liberty halves a few month ago....but because they were common date coins they all came back 63-64. These exact same coins in tougher years would be 65 coins but because they were common dates they came back lower. but back on track.... I have a lot of customers that like to flip coins as an investment. You can put your money in a bank and make 3-5% or you can take that same amount of money and buy a coin flip it for even %10 and make more on it... but as with any high return investment you have to be really smart about what your investing in and there is always risk.... my flipped 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rittenhouse Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Part time dealing in coins is tough. Too much info on grading & pricing and too much hype to make it profitable for most. Dealers have an easier time since they retail and usually have a customer base. eBay is not a real good venue to maximize profits though off-grade, impaired and junk sells well, just not great profits for the amount of time. The best way probably is to specialize and advertise in the club pubs for retail and wholsale to larger dealers. Tougher now with the ramapant over-grading by the TPGs but it can still be done. Best if you live in an area with a lot of shows. But why limit yourself to just coins? Most areas have estate auctions and general auction houses. I do far more in antiques than coins. No price lists, no grading and a huge number of collecting areas. Much easier to get a steal. And the best way to make money still is the established stock, bond and commodity markets. Never ceases to amaze me that folks will spend hours and hours trying to make a buck in coins and ignore the greatest opportunity of them all. Like Cramer sez: "There's always a bull market somewhere." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28Plain Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 A quick turnover for a nice profit just doesn't seem to happen with most coins. I think most of the profit I make comes from sitting on a coin for a few years, then selling it. With inflation, these days, that doesn't really qualify as profit unless it's a pretty substantial margin. An older fellow I know sold me a very nice sterling Hamer chalice for $200 bucks and was pleased with himself because he had paid $50 for it in 1968. I sold it immediately for $850, so we made nearly the same markup, my profit was real whereas his was actually a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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