IgorS Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 Here is a nice one. It is NGC MS 65. The design of these coins is very nice, but I am not sure that today's prices reflect true reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 Igors, are you suggesting that the prices are still too low for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 Igors, are you suggesting that the prices are still too low for them? Qxseries, quite opposite. I think prices are crazy high, and not just for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 Guys, A little bit offtopic.. While I agree that reverse side of 1912 rouble is one of the best (second best I think) - no other conmemorative can beat Marriage rouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 Guys, A little bit offtopic.. While I agree that reverse side of 1912 rouble is one of the best (second best I think) - no other conmemorative can beat Marriage rouble. That is if you are a follower of the school of thought that it is indead a rouble, not a medal ( I mean all of them). Based on your post on Staraya Moneta, you are on the hot trail. Please share with us if it goes through. Myself, I found it the hardest to find it in copper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 That is if you are a follower of the school of thought that it is indead a rouble, not a medal ( I mean all of them). Based on your post on Staraya Moneta, you are on the hot trail. Please share with us if it goes through. Myself, I found it the hardest to find it in copper. Well,.... you asked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 Well you asked I will not post better quality, because - to be honest - something from my set I sold and now it is with another collector. The sixth variety not pictured here - is the reeded edge 1841 HГ in gold is with a Moscow - as far as I know it is the only original gold rouble in Russia. If necessary - I can give a link to its picture. Now on these 5 pictures are - copper plain edge, silver reeded and plain edge (thin flan), silver plain edge medal (thick flan), silver reeded HI novodel. BTW - novodel is from Diakov catalog - so this is why I asked about it on other forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 Very nice I broke up my set, kept the two with reeded edges and the copper one. There are some thoughts that reeded novodel was struck to commemorate the 10th anniversary of marriage. That's the reason I kept the "novodel". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 Very nice I broke up my set, kept the two with reeded edges and the copper one. There are some thoughts that reeded novodel was struck to commemorate the 10th anniversary of marriage. That's the reason I kept the "novodel". Judging by the die - it was not kept very well for those 10 years. Is yout HI 'novodel' a proof or regular die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Julian Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 Guys,A little bit offtopic.. While I agree that reverse side of 1912 rouble is one of the best (second best I think) - no other conmemorative can beat Marriage rouble. The question of the Marriage rouble is contentious. Dr. I.G. Spassky, after a review of archival documents and published materials, declared these pieces to be medals. Uzdenikov, on the other hand, classifies them as roubles. My personal view is that Dr. Spassky was correct. RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 The question of the Marriage rouble is contentious. Dr. I.G. Spassky, after a review of archival documents and published materials, declared these pieces to be medals. Uzdenikov, on the other hand, classifies them as roubles. My personal view is that Dr. Spassky was correct. RWJ The only reason for this controversy is that Ilyin&Co and Grand Duke included this particular 'medal-coin' into their catalogs. Grand Duke on page 226 gives references and quotes from some archival documents and even contemporary bureaucratic correspondence dated 1841 mixed up the words coin and medal. So this is a tradition started 160+ years ago to argue about what is it. Note that no other medal even in rouble diameter was ever included into Ilyin and Grand Duke references. Maybe some day some great numismatic brains decide that Marriage rouble is not a rouble (like was decided that Pluto is not a planet) but untill then - imho - these pieces will catch attention of numismatists, and not medal collectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 Judging by the die - it was not kept very well for those 10 years. Is yout HI 'novodel' a proof or regular die? Mine was graded PF 62 by NGC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 Maybe some day some great numismatic brains decide that Marriage rouble is not a rouble (like was decided that Pluto is not a planet) but untill then - imho - these pieces will catch attention of numismatists, and not medal collectors. Sometimes the distinction between coins and medals is not as clear as is often assumed. If a coronation "jeton" is struck in gold to the standard of a ducat, is it a coin or a small medal? The ducat bears no denomination, is defined by its gold content, and is usually considered a coin. The Kunersdorf "rouble" is another example. It circulated as a rouble even though originally issued as a military award. If it was accepted as a rouble and actually circulated as money, why shouldn't it be considered a coin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 The only reason for this controversy is that Ilyin&Co and Grand Duke included this particular 'medal-coin' into their catalogs. Grand Duke on page 226 gives references and quotes from some archival documents and even contemporary bureaucratic correspondence dated 1841 mixed up the words coin and medal. So this is a tradition started 160+ years ago to argue about what is it. Note that no other medal even in rouble diameter was ever included into Ilyin and Grand Duke references. Maybe some day some great numismatic brains decide that Marriage rouble is not a rouble (like was decided that Pluto is not a planet) but untill then - imho - these pieces will catch attention of numismatists, and not medal collectors. Are you saying that Spassky was not a great numismatic brain? In my opinion, what often catches attention of coin collectors is a question of marketing, courtesy of their dealers/suppliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted April 21, 2007 Report Share Posted April 21, 2007 I am confused. Was that coin ever circulated as legal tender? Is not that the definition of a coin? I believe most commerative rubles have the denomination on the coin. Perhaps these topics have been discussed during the previous 160 years of that argument. I am just looking at the situation as an observer who hasnt read the literature on the debate. If its a ruble, it should say "ruble" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted April 22, 2007 Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 Are you saying that Spassky was not a great numismatic brain?In my opinion, what often catches attention of coin collectors is a question of marketing, courtesy of their dealers/suppliers. Uzdenikov is a great numismatic brain too, so this discussion can last another 160 years Somebody thinks that Gangut rouble was medal too - that is never meant for circulation (like other numerous coins) and supposed to be given to celebration participants. Personally I do not have an opinion if it is a coin or a medal. Who am I to judge if they did not know it back in 1841? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted April 22, 2007 Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 Uzdenikov is a great numismatic brain too, so this discussion can last another 160 years Somebody thinks that Gangut rouble was medal too - that is never meant for circulation (like other numerous coins) and supposed to be given to celebration participants. Personally I do not have an opinion if it is a coin or a medal. Who am I to judge if they did not know it back in 1841? Now I agree with you fully. Not too many of us are doing something original in our collecting patterns. It all has been done before us and will be done again after us (hopefully ). We just need to do whatever pleases our collecting "desease". Medal or coin - who cares. We love owning it and it gives us moments of positive emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted April 22, 2007 Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 Now I agree with you fully. Not too many of us are doing something original in our collecting patterns. It all has been done before us and will be done again after us (hopefully ). We just need to do whatever pleases our collecting "desease". Medal or coin - who cares. We love owning it and it gives us moments of positive emotions. It is the pride of accomplishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remtomcat Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 Hey, guys. Napoleon was defeated in 1812 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaxol Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 it comemorates 100 years from his defeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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