Sir Sisu Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 I do not know too much about this one. The reverse is his family's crest and the text "IN TRINITATE ROBUR" was his motto. The text on the obverse "PATRIAE INSERVIENDO CONSUMOR" translates as "I am consumed in the service of my Fatherland". Appearantly it was some 50th anniversary related to his service, though I could not find the significance of the starting date. The designer of the medal is Schwenzer. If anyone knows more about this specific medal I would appreciate the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabbs Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Your picture is sure better than this seller's image. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=250046049808 Well, in June 1835 Bismarck was 20 years old and, from what I have found, in that year he started working as a "Referendar" (junior lawyer?) at the Royal City Court - Königliches Stadtgericht - in Berlin. Before that he had been a student, in Göttingen and Berlin. So I guess that the description "50 years of service to Prussia" is right, even though it suggests a continuity that his biography does not quite support ... Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 I thought it was interesting when I was in Hamburg, the monument to Bismarck there is largely defaced and not kept up in the manner which one would think it would be. I saw a photo once of the monument being used as a pole for telephone cables right after WWII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 A very nice medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 wow...what a fantastic detailed medal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabbs Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 I thought it was interesting when I was in Hamburg, the monument to Bismarck there is largely defaced and not kept up in the manner which one would think it would be. Bismarck and Hamburg, that was never a cordial relationship. He considered the city to be mostly socialist, and many Hamburgers had their issues with a politician who, in many cases, was Prussian first, then German. Being merchants and living from global trade does not really go along very well with (to put it to an extreme) militarism and pedantic bureaucracy. That attitude changed to some extent after 1871 ... Another problem is that in the 1930s the nazis "beautified" the monument with all kinds of images and slogans, e.g. from Bismarck's blood and iron speech. Anyway, I guess that most locals would not mind if it collapsed ... which may actually happen; the building (which had its 100th birthday this year) is not stable any more. It would cost at least €2 million to restore it. Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elverno Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 There's nothing specific in Forrer about Schwenzer (Vol. V, pp. 437-439) only stating that he created "Portrait-medals of Prince Bismarck (two sizes)" without further details. Beauty of a medal though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Bismarck and Hamburg, that was never a cordial relationship. He considered the city to be mostly socialist, and many Hamburgers had their issues with a politician who, in many cases, was Prussian first, then German. Being merchants and living from global trade does not really go along very well with (to put it to an extreme) militarism and pedantic bureaucracy. That attitude changed to some extent after 1871 ... Another problem is that in the 1930s the nazis "beautified" the monument with all kinds of images and slogans, e.g. from Bismarck's blood and iron speech. Anyway, I guess that most locals would not mind if it collapsed ... which may actually happen; the building (which had its 100th birthday this year) is not stable any more. It would cost at least €2 million to restore it. Christian I took photographs of the monument, I was kind of surprised to see it in such deplorable condition. It is history, and it should not be condemned because of what the nazis attempted to do in the 1930's. On a side note I think it is interesting that the Hamburg coinage still had Hansestadt Hamburg on it, well after the Hanse league faded into history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabbs Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 It is history, and it should not be condemned because of what the nazis attempted to do in the 1930's. Don't think that in Hamburg they actually "condemn" the Bismarck monument - after all, it is still there. And who knows, if sponsors for the expensive restoration are found, maybe it will be restored one day. (Like that huge Wilhelm monument in Koblenz.) It just does not have a very high priority for most people there, and that may have more to do with Hamburg and Prussia than with the nazis. As for the "Hansestadt", I think that the Freie part of the name was more important than the Hanse part. During the Empire and the Weimar Republic, Bremen, Hamburg and Lübeck were free cities, ie. each of them was a state by itself. That still applies to Hamburg and Bremen, by the way. But even others - Lübeck, Rostock, Wismar, etc. - continue to call themselves "Hanse" cities. (Guess why they all have that extra "H" in their license plate codes ...) And while the Hanse is not really economically relevant any more the modern Hanse http://www.hanse.org/en/the_hansa/ has more than 150 member cities in various European countries. Back to the medal, Karl Schwenzer designed and engraved several coins for the kingdom of Württemberg and the Swiss confederation. So I guess this medal is "made in Stuttgart" too ... Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Actually shortly after the war there was discussion, maybe the British occupiers, of blowing the monument up. It did not happen, but the damage from the war was never fixed. The St. Nikolaus church however was bombed out during the war and only the tower was left. But an association of the cities of Hamburg, Coventry and Moscow were collectively restoring bombed out churches in the early 1990's. I have to say I did think it a bit odd that the monument to Bismarck was erected in Hamburg, obviously Hamburg was not Prussia and there was a different feeling there. Kind of makes me wonder if it was a Prussian "gift"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabbs Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Back then, about 100 years ago, pretty much every German city had a Wilhelm (I.) monument and a Bismarck monument, plus maybe Moltke and Roon ... As for why Hamburg wanted to have the biggest one, well, maybe it had something to do with Kaiser Wilhelm (II.)'s being fond of anything sea/navy related, and Hamburg's wish to (continue to) have a free port, don't know. The same Hugo Lederer who sculpted the monstrous Bismarck monument also made this Heine statue http://studienberatung.phil-fak.uni-duesse...ilder/heine.jpg about five years later. What a difference ... By the way, some of the Swiss coins that Karl Schwenzer designed are still in circulation: He was responsible for the Liberty head on the 5, 10, and 20 centimes/rappen coins. Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sisu Posted November 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 ...By the way, some of the Swiss coins that Karl Schwenzer designed are still in circulation: He was responsible for the Liberty head on the 5, 10, and 20 centimes/rappen coins. Christian Interesting! I was thinking of parting with this one as it does not really fit into my collection, but it is turning out to be a more curious piece than I thought. Now if I can find out what authority commisioned it and for whom (general public or just the numismatic community of the day)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabbs Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Now if I can find out what authority commisioned it and for whom (general public or just the numismatic community of the day)? Sorry, cannot really help you with that. Seems there is (or maybe was) a booklet called "Der königlich württembergische Hofmedailleur Karl Schwenzer (1843 - 1904)" (Sonderdruck aus dem Heimat- und Sachbuch Löwenstein) but even that may not provide any info on that medal. Just like Bismarck monuments, Bismarck medals were not exactly rare back then ... Here are images of some other medals designed by Schwenzer: http://www.bibliomat.de/M6-13/0602Medaillen2.jpg (at the bottom) http://www.bibliomat.de/M6-13/0602Medaillen3.jpg (top two, and bottom left) Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sisu Posted November 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Thanks for your effort Christian! My, those other medals make mine like dull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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