extant4cell

Can anyone help me to figure out which coins they struck over in 1740s and 1750s when striking 2 ORE? I have a 1758 Russian coin which was struck over 2 ore of that period, but there is one small left over shadow image on the coin that does not fit 2 ore and possibly belongs to another "undercoin". It would be nice to figure it out. Thank you in advance!

Book is on sale http://www.blurb.com/b/6980996-1757-1762-2-4-5-10 It also can be purchased directly from me, but I only have softcover books available. Sigi, I've sent you PM in reply. Thank you for your interest! More details from: http://www.numistika.com/index.html Currently on Sale: 2016 Catalog of 2 & 5 kopecks of Elizabeth 1757-1762 4 & 10 kopecks of Peter III 1762 with Album of over 100 Images and 27 types (in Russian) В продаже: 2016 Справочник для Коллекционеров Крупных Номиналов Медных Монет Российской Империи 1757–1762 гг. Click on this link to order the book of your choice (soft or hard cover). Для заказа книги нажмите на эту ссылку и выберети книгу в мягкой (soft) или твёрдой (hard) обложке. You can also buy directly from me (soft cover only) US$105, including postage. Вы так же можете заказать книгу (только в мягкой обложке) написав на адрес моей электронной почты. Цена книги при заказе на прямую 7200 рублей, 2750 гривен или US$105, что включает пересылку. Способы расчета: PayPal, на карту или счёт СБ в России или на счёт ПБ на Украине. Preview / Просмотр: Внимание: фотография монеты #40 в книге - возможно от ненастоящей монеты, однако монеты этого типа существуют и тип описан верно. Attention: Image of coin #40 in this book is possibly from a coin that is not original, it represents an existing type of coin, which is described correctly.

They are both from Sestroretsk mint, made from old (and not so old) cannons' "copper", etc. Different alloy from EM and MM. There are 4 types of Sestroretsk 5-kopecks or 7 variants. Both coins are in the book

You are too modest, Sigi. Elisabeth's coppers in condition of visual appeal can be a real challenge, and only the sky is a limit to perfection! These are my three latest additions that I am very happy with, even though they are not perfect, but anyone would be hard-pressed to find better coins for their types:

I search for 5 kopecks far less often than for 2 kopecks, as they are probably my most favorite copper coins leading from Peter's 1723 5 kopecks overstrike research etc. There is one elusive variety from 1757 SPB that I will probably be hunting for years to come, and who knows if I will ever find it?!! Only 2 of those coins are known at present. Funny enough, people didn't even know that they were extremely rare, until I had a chance to study them. Just like with that 5 kopecks 1758 SPB coin, that presumably was made at SPB as a trial of muster-dies for EM / MM mints. There is one coin in Hermitage (ex-Tolstoy collection), and I managed to buy the other one - that's it, can not find any more. But I love all Elizabeth copper now. Working on this book made me look into the matters deeper then ever, and find some interesting or rare verities, and I appreciate all the help that I got from you Sigi, when it comes to 5 kopecks. Some of your coins made it to the catalog as well, as the best examples of the type. Your collection is hard to excel, with the number of high quality and rarity pieces that you have. There are still some missing, as collection is really never complete. Good luck and happy hunting!

Hi Sigi! Thank you for the question. SPB mint stopped making 2 kopecks that year. They only over-struck them on older issues of 1 or 5 kopecks of the same size and didn't make them on new blanks. In 1759 the supply of old issues was running very thin and out, the master-dies were getting overworked, but there was also no need to spend money on making new master-dies, as only a few dies were required to complete the job and as a result the SPB dies ended up looking like made somewhat "off-hand" from the old master-dies with "9" in the date usually transformed manually from overworked "7". All 2 k-s SPB of this year are reasonably scares, but it is just simply very difficult to find 2 k SPB of this year in such a good condition due to reasonably small amount of them being struck! Out of all coins I've seen, the best one till now was this one: http://www.m-dv.ru/monety-rossii-1700-1917/prohod,15079/coins,281/type,3040/auction,24/date,2009-06-25/lot,6169/images-prohod.html http://www.m-dv.ru/monety-rossii-1700-1917/prohod,18653/coins,281/type,3040/auction,41/date,2008-10-19/lot,134/images-prohod.html It shows up twice on MD site for a good reason. Till now, it was the only coin I knew in collectable condition, the others I ever found were less than under-dogs... The easiest way to tell SBP (and SM [1757-1758]) coins is the shape of the banner that "2 kopecks" is written on. It's sides are on a particular angle to the main image and the left one, if you continue it's line, always crosses with the top end of the spear, where as same line from other mints always misses the spear, going too high. That makes SPB and SM coins - easiest to spot out of all others. Over the years EM and MM mint 2 kopecks 1759 can be found in good condition in reasonable numbers - not the SPB. Hence my excitement!

Did anyone notice this, I dare say, rare coin sale? 2 kopecks 1759 from Petersburg Mint. $235 - not a high price to pay, even in our times. It shows that still not many understand these coins... I only know one other such coin in a reasonable condition. The one that in 2008-2009 was shown at NIKO and later sold by Kunker for $339 (it is in catalog). But this beauty is a lot better and more prominent in its details, I think.

Extensive library of Russian and other numismatic etc. books in making at my site: http://www.numistika.com/books.html submissions of any additional contributed materials are welcomed.

Love your colorful pictures! Even though I saw them much later. Here are two of my little collections of pictures in and around Melbourne: http://www.numistika.com/city.html and http://www.numistika.com/nature.html

Shubert had a great collection, once it was acquired by Tolstoys brothers and Giel had an opportunity to study them he came to the conclusions that good half of coin in the collections were novodel, fakes or counterfeits (which Shubert also collected). Nonetheless he did have a great collection with lots of genuine rarities. Possibly this is one of those coins, or another great collection in making?

No return guaranty of authenticity is very fishy It's hard to pass the judgement on the coin before you hold it in hand sometimes, but as far as I am concerned as of 1803 the new design was implemented and as of that time "old" dies were no longer made, but were finishing they lives mixing with the new dies, only when one of the new dies in a pair got damaged, without making new "old" type dies past 1803. That makes me believe it is most probably a fake, well spotted by you.

Thank you guys! Added a number of interesting books on history, medals and numismatic. There are some books in English and German as well (particular on medalists). Have fun browsing! In the last couple of month I think I became a collector of old books in PDF and forgot actual coins. It's a good distraction from anything in the world.

I invite you to visit the library of old books and leave your feedback here. My site presents thematic collections of old books, materials on numismatics, history, medals, sphragistics, heraldry, and the history, including the history of money circulation in Russia since ancient times: http://www.numistika.com/books.html There is a separate "corner" material devoted solely to "Corpus of Russian coins" by Grand Duke Georgii Mikhailovich (VKGM, GM), and his collection: http://www.numistika.com/vkgm.html In another "corner" there are materials provided by greatly respectable Mr. V. Arefiev, that can be useful to people interested in the history of Corpus of Russian coins, old books and the actual GM collection: http://www.numistika.com/contributed.html ... In the future I hope to cooperate with other authors in this section. Some of the publications are extremely rare, and perhaps see the light in the public domain for the first time. I want to express my gratitude for the positive support, guidance, and for the provision of additional books and materials donated by Mr. V. Arefiev. This site is in English, it has a function of auto-translation through the google, and navigation should not be too difficult. Books presented there are in Russian, German, French, Latin and English. If you will be able to donate some of your interesting finds, I will gladly consider them for inclusion into this free library. With respect to the Russian numismatic community, Eugene Skobtchenko

LOL... That gives me an idea - puzzles out of old coins. Take 10 coins, cut them exactly the same way mix and sell with a super glue in a match box...

But I keep reading it and checking every day! Great answer with mintmasters!

I don't believe they were photographed by caring numismatist. But better than nothing. If anyone would like to contribute better quality images for displaying on the site, or any document / old books, more than happy to accept them.

At the end of the page I placed 3 links to the sources of where images have come from.

I will add it at the end of the page later.

Finally put the images of GM collection together as I wanted them to be displayed: http://www.numistika.com/vkgm%20collection.html

The more I look at it, the more I agree with both of you. Thank you for your help!

Thank you both for answering! It appear that this is a fake coin, as I am told by many on Russian forum, although, it was hard to believe. The picture fooled me for sure , as it displays all attributes on Moscow mint so well... I still have hard time to believe it, though the opinion of others was expressed pretty strongly.

Funny enough, Ministry of Transport in Russian Federation went way ahead of its times when there was a changeover of coat of arms from symbols of soviet era and without further a due installed imperial eagle on its plague... it's just a curious fact...

By the way the new eagle is still only a shadow of the imperial eagle. I am glad it has finally replaced the eagle of Provisional Government (I raised this question before on Russian forum: http://coins.su/forum/index.php?showtopic=135966 ). But it needs more work to become worthy of its past, adding the territorial coats of arms, the order of St. Andrew with chain and proper colors (both gold and black are historically acceptable colors for the eagle). If there truly was a monarch in Russia now, the eagle may easily look like that (last one), but without a supreme power it will stay half naked - a bit sad looking Moskovit eagle (first). Proper historical imperial eagle whose image used to appear on late imperial coins is in the middle. St. George facing right is more acceptable in Russian heraldry than later "westernized" left facing one. The last eagle had traditional heraldic emblems added: coat of arms of the kingdom of Kazan, the coat of arms of the kingdom of Astrakhan, Siberian kingdom coat of arms, coat of arms of the kingdom of Chersonese Taurian, coat of arms of Vladimir and Novgorod, and still missing a few... Anyhow, IT WOULD LOOK GREAT ON COINS!

I personally don't see a problem with this coin, but would love to hear other opinions.

Depends on your political standings. There is no universal opinion. There is a drift, however, to embrace all periods as part of Russia's current history. But people are still divided in opinions on particular parts and figures. Tsar was demonized by bolsheviks, bolsheviks by 90-s liberals etc, etc... People understand there are no easy answers, but do like to believe that all had some goodness in them in the end. Only masons are in the bad books (and liberals who relate to them), as the ones who destroyed great Imperial Russia, and later USSR from inside. There were great things achieved by Romanovs, there were great things achieved by later years Soviet Russia. People like to be proud of their country, so everyone is trying to make peace with history, one way or another. It helps that we even see this in Russian Orthodox church that finally has united under Moscow Patriarchate, putting an end to the division of Russians to whites and reds, abroad or internal, although a lot of wounds will take years and years to heal...