sigistenz

Link works when copied and pasted above. Real or not - difficult to tell from the picture alone0 .16 grams short of weight (~5%) can be explained by wear.    Strange thing that it was inserted at $.99. The seller hasn't sold any rarities before, looks like an antique dealer.  But one never knows....  Let's see the buyer's feedback. Someone ready to risk that heap of money for a - well, ugly looking coin most have some experience.  In my opinion a coin like that needs to be seen in person, taken in hand, inspected closely.

Sigi

Eugene, I am sorry but I can't see anything that resembles a clover . On the Imperial Crown there is an ornamented  cross and on the small crown there are three 5 petaled flowers - nothing that I'd call  clovers. And that is what I meant to say.

Josh, that is a very good question. As the eagle's bust is covered I imagine it female

Sigi

On Elizabeth's coins the crown over her cipher is decorated with clovers, sometimes with 3, sometimes with 5. How many had there really been??? On the 1759 five kopek both variants occur:

But which was the correct design - how many clovers had been on the real crown - 3 or 5 ????  See below.

Maybe the clovers were on the backside?

Sigi

Hi Mihaizaha, thank you for showing the coins. They are quite nice -  above average. 1758 is not easily encountered. It was EM's 1st year of the big coppers and I still have to see a perfect strike. Happy hunting 

Sigi

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Hi Eugene,  thank you for the rectification. I did not know the firebird either. As promised I copied the JRNS article "THE ST.PETERSBURG RUBLES OF TIMOFEI IVANOV 1757-61. That was 10 pages in the journal, too much to enter here, I'm afraid. So I sent it to you as a PM. I WILL BE PLEASED TO SEND THE ARTICLE TO ALL INTERESTED COIN PEOPLE UPON REQUEST.

Sigi

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Conros and Wolmar catalogs list only one rouble type for 1760 (i.e. the common Dassier silver rouble eagle of the previous years).  For the 1761 rouble there is also just one entry,  depicted is the copper eagle.  Obviously, a few copper eagle roubles were already struck in (late) 1760. I got the complete set of JRNS journals on my attic. Will copy the Julian article the next days. Till then, Sigi

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Thank you Eugene, it took you quite a lot of work but I can see the distinctions, too, now. I wonder how it is possible to get aware of a tiny feature like this.  For me the loop is more eyecatching and of course distinct differences of the eagles' design.  You made an interesting discovery! It leads me to look closer. Unfortunately the majority of these coins are too worn or/and poorly struck to reveal minor features. I appreciate your research

Sigi

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I am sorry, Eugene but I am not sure about your point   There is a little stem between the leaves and the loop, the  lowest inner leaf is slightly apart - is that it?  I cannot detect much difference.

Sigi

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I edited my post by inserting a picture of my other coin for comparison.  The ciphers of the date are different, also the loop of the wreath. Then the  eagle's wings,  especially their inner design.  According to Eugene, it is the fluffy feathers type. Last not least watch the eagle's tail feathers.  

Sigi

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What do you have?  

Sigi

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A witness of EM's 1st year minting skills with the large copper 5 kopek pieces.  I could not resist the nice eagle - a variant to my other 1758(EM) below.  Sigi

Hi Josh -  9 pcs of a general type is not a small collection I cannot comment much because it is not my field.  Aside of design variants, most of the dates come with  either reticulated or lettered edge.   Thank you for showing.

Sigi

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  Me too

Sigi

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In my opinion your 1762 is scroll type I.  Scroll type III appears only with St.Petersburg/Setrorezk (=only in 1758).

Sigi

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Thank you for showing, Josh. As you will be aware there are different eagle types in that series. Our friend Eugene wrote a guidebook about the issue which is very useful. I think the eagle on your 1762 is not common for the date (?).

Sigi

Hey lucky you!  The grade is outstanding for the date.  If ever seen it looks terribly ugly. I still have to find mine. My sincere congratulations.

Sigi

Nope, outbid by one step (€20). I was not too eager but did not want to watch it go too cheap either. Thank you for your good wishes

Sigi

Dunno yet - I do not expect much as I bade only €400.  It is the only one in the m-dv records with E overlaying I but the top crowns are missing both sides 😒  Did you get it???

Sigi

As the hole is not on top, the coin was probably sewn on a dress, see  the picture from "SPASSKY, The Russian Monetary system" .

Sigi

I like it, too.

Sigi

21 hours ago, squirrel said:

Cheers Sigi!   Doing well here.  I check in frequently, despite not actively hunting these days.  My boy will be 10 next month!  I havent had a spare dollar to buy anything, for oh, about 9 years.   I do enjoy all the great topics, as they come up here.  And a perpetual eye open for interesting overstrikes!   

Hi Josh, you are right. It's much better to spend for your son than for coins. Thinking back I do not have a good conscience.......

Sigi

Yes, lostdiamond, it took some enhancing of your last picture, but now it's clear. The "10" must be the 1762 "10" because in 1796 the "10" was not on the cipher side.

Great coin indeed! 😳

Sigi

23 hours ago, squirrel said:

Wonderful coins all!  What a great topic, and thank you all for showing.  lost Diamond, your double (triple?) Overstruck 1791EM is treasure hunt for hidden detail.

 

 

Hi Josh, nice to hear from you again. How are you? Nice coins coming your way?

Happy hunting, Sigi

On 10/13/2018 at 4:35 AM, lostdiamond777 said:

Hello, everyone!

Let me add a few more coins. I was fortunate to find two 5 kopecks 1791 E:M:  and I can see some difference between them too..

 

Hi lostdiamond, and welcome here!  Thank you for showing your nice coins.  I compared them with what I showed. It seems to me that your 2nd coin is identical to my 2nd coin on both sides. Whereas your 1st coin looks like a combination of my 2nd cipher side and my 1st eagle side.  That would make us deal with 3 different variants - what do you think? 

Sigi

I had watched those magnificent coins, too .    But at BU coins that old - how to be sure that they are genuine?  Of course they are or become genuine because of their pedigree as coming from  a renowned auction sale and the price they fetched there.  There are good reasons to be happy with circulated - doubtlessly honest - coins. They have lived and if they only could speak.  That is what brains tell but the next supernice old pyatak will be tempting again....

Happy hunting - Sigi

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