sigistenz

Most of my pictures are scans. A scan with open scanner lid provides a black background. It is worth a try.

Sigi

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Eugene, could you please enlarge the article? If I click on it it says that I don't have access to that external link.

Are you aware of the 2kop1802EM overstrike over EM in the 1997 Bakken/Brekke update?

Thank you,

Sigi

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These are much better pictures. A pretty nice coin ! That is the only Siberian 10 kopek missing with me.

Can you show the 1763 w/o mint mark, too? Thank you,

Sigi

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Eugene, what I mean is that the monogram is not flat as usual but convex, rounded on top. And so is the "1796". The monogram looks like cream applied by the pastry baker. That disturbed me.

But now I compared to another one in Künker's upcoming auction - the same pastry appearance.

Seems that you are right - once more. Thank you for widening my horizon again ! Sigi

Hi Eugene - I'm sorry but I can't see any indication of reoverstrike. Sure the dies are somewhat different, I do not remember having seen this type of "96" of the date, it jumps into the eye. Are you sure the coin is authentic? The edging tool of the time often produced an "overedgeing" like this, as can be seen on earlier dates as well. What you show is not necessarily an overstrike edge XXXXXX over //////// .

But note: this is only my personal opinion based on my more than 40 years of collecting Russian coins. My Russian is too poor to follow Russian language forums and their recent discoveries.

Take care, Sigi

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Unpublished variant - sensational discovery - grim face Elisabeth

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1769-GRIVENNIK-EKATERINA-II-SILVER-RUSSIAN-old-imperial-COIN-/281711829605?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4197556265

enjoy, Sigi

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You are right Igor, the 5kop1761MM is still missing with me

I remember having seen about 3 of them over the years but none was nice. Another empty space in my trays is reserved for the above Siberian 10kop1767- - . And your 10kop1762 is much better than mine. Congratulations to your outstanding coins and thank you for sharing. True, the pictures could be nicer for the above one and the 1763 no Mintmark coin. Could you show better pictures of them? They would really deserve it.

Thank you, Sigi

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Hi Alex and Eugene, thank you for showing the Siberian 1767 ten kopeks. Nice ones. The 1767 lettered edge is lacking with me, too. By the way, according to my statistics , of the three 1767 types - lettered edge, edge 1 (/////////////) and edge 6 (\\\\\\\\\\\\\\) - the rarest one is edge 6,

Sigi

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Ruslan, I am sorry, I confused your coins. Your first coin, the 1791, should not be cleaned. Your second coin however, the 1780, is problematic. If you remove the green verdigris, the nice brown patina will go away, too. AND instead of the green verdigris, you might find a rough surface, a bit like the surface of the moon

I ruined more than one coin and now keep away from green coins. I do not like to buy trouble any more.

The monogram on Catherine's coins has normally the top of the "E" under the "I". Sometimes it is the other way round. I watch coins for that. I do not know if any guidebook mentinons this difference.

Your 1786 is VERY nice . Congratulations !

Best, Sigi

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Hello Ruslan, don't clean your coin. It looks good. Cleaning woulfd spoil it. I am searching the coins still misssing with me, for example 5 kopeks 1764 СПМ, 5 kopeks 1767 СМ, 5 kopek 1788 TM, and so on.

How are you doing? Please show us what you find.

Regards, Sigi

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Hello Ruslan, welcome in this forum, it is nice to meet a real Russian! I think most of us Russia collectors in this forum live in the West. You are right, computer translations are not always correct - to say the least. "Nickel" is an expression for the American 5 cent coin which is made from copper-nickel. A 5 kopek may be called pyatak in this forum, everybody would understand. A nice disease you say, but it can become chronic like in my case

Your 1791EM is nice, thank you for showing it.

As to my very first 5 kopek (the cause of it all) - I cannot show it, I sold it long ago because I had found a nicer one to replace it.

Happy hunting!

Sigi

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Hello Ruslan, thank you for the praise. I am a German and I do not have Russian roots. I have been a collector all my life. In 1962 I became active with coins. Maybe 10 years later I bought a copper 5 kopek of Catherine II at a coin show. That made me start with Russian coins and specialize in them. I love copper. I have been collecting the large Russian and Siberian copper coins for more than 40 years. Yes, I am crazy.

Tell us something about yourself and your coins.

Best, Sigi

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No I had no further correspondence with V.V.Uzdennikov. As to Bernhard Brekke I do not remember if he told about other business. After all this was in 1988, quite a while ago. One other thing came to my mind. About pricing in his guidebook he mentioned that he valued low what he was still after and high, what he already had (winking).

Sigi

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As people keep asking about "my" 1726 kopek, here is the story.

I discovered the coin in late 1988 at the TIETJEN, Hamburg, Germany, coin auction catalog. The picture was poor, downscaled, bound to pass under the radar.

I had Tietjen send me the coin for inspection. In hand it looked ugly. Poorly executed (see lettering "kopeika") and pretty worn. But genuine, no doubt about that. It was before internet. I had only my books and catalogs to consult. I found three pictures of the 1726 kopek. All three were different from each other, different dies each! And mine was still different from any of them. What to make out of this? 4 extremely rare pattern coins and each one from a different pair of dies.

Well, I took a day off and rode the train to Hamburg, got the coin for Deutschmarks 1400 (about $750) plus ~20% gravy.

Intrigued about the different dies I photographed the coin and sent letters (by snail mail then) to Ran Zander (Russian Numismatic Society), Bernhard Brekke, V.V.Uzdennikov, maybe still others, asking for opinions. Nobody had an explication except Uzdennikov, I still have his reply:-

Bernhard Brekke wrote that he would like to buy the coin. I asked $2500. His reply was that the price was "high in the clouds". Those were his words. To me that meant that he was not interested. I kept the coin in my collection.

One evening, some months later, when I was alone at home in Cologne, Germany -my wife was out with our car- the bell rang, to my surprise it was Bernhard from far away Mexico where he lived at the time. I knew him from earlier visits. He said "I'm coming for the coin".

My collection was at hand. I brought it and Bernhard viewed my treasures. He took the coin and inspected it. Then he produced a Dutch guilder 5000 banknote and ostentatively fished in his pockets for more. After a while I said OK. It was 10% less than what I had wanted, but OK.

We had a glass of Bordeaux, I considered what to offer to eat but Bernhard said he was not hungry and would not stay overnight either, that he had booked a room in a downtown hotel. He took the bus and off he was.

The coin reappeared in the sale of his collection in 1993, fetched only $2000.

Last time it was seen was in a NEW YORK SALE, 2 or 3 years ago,. there were two of the 1726 kopeks then, different dies. I think they went at $ 115,000 or so each.

So it goes.

Sigi

I thought it was forgotten

will do the next days as new topic.

Sigi

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And I am looking for a nice Ekaterinburg one. Seems they are always ugly.

Sigi

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Hi Eugene, excellent job!

How did you do it? Did you soak it in Verdi-Care - and for how long?

Sigi

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My question was in the past, what coin is more rare 10 k 1766 with KM edge or 10 k 1767 with KM edge. They both about the same in rarity ( http://www.m-dv.ru/monety-rossii-1700-1917/kid,14/mid,18/nid,29/types.html ), but 1767 has twice as less sales, and I struggled to find one in a reasonable condition for my collection...

Right, Eugene, the 10kop1767-- is difficult, I am still after it.

Based on what I read on Russian forums the old cypher coins are rarer than the old eagle coins. Ilyin evaluated the old cypher / new eagle combination at 10 roubles, hence Bitkin's R2. The other mule is considered the most common of the rare 1788 varieties. There is some debate on why the old style 1788 coin is rarer than your R2 mule.

Yes, Alex, in my opinion the 5kop1788EM old style both sides is the rarest of the 1788s.

It is stll missing with me.

Thank you both - and....

HAPPY HUNTING!

Sigi

A mule is the offspring of a mare and a male donkey. In numismatics it means an unnatural die combination. In our case one side of the coin is from the earlier type, the other from the later type and vice versa (crowns small or large, eagle wings broad or narrow). All the guidebooks list them and evaluate them separately (Brekke, Bitkin, Dyakov, Yusupov, Wolmar, Konros, etc.)

Of course m-dv.ru does not represent all auctions. But if there are 17 sale records of one variant and 17 of the other it is difficult to understand why they are valued differently in the guidebooks. My upper picture is Bitkin R2, the lower one R1 and they are priced accordingly in all the guidebooks. My point is that their rarity looks not that different to justify R2 vs. R1 or the enormous pice difference.

Sigi

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above - old cipher side / new eagle side Bitkin R2

below - new cipher side/old eagle side Bitkin R1

The two different mules are valued differently - all the guidebooks rate the first variant higher

However - in the auctions of the last 7 years recorded at http://www.m-dv.ru/monety-rossii-1700-1917/kid,14/mid,4/nid,34/types.html

there appear 17 each*) of both variants - exactly equal numbers.

That does not look like a big difference in rarity?

Sigi

*) some are listed in the wrong place, but there are exactly 17 pictures each mule

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Josh, seeing this I have to get me a bottle of beer..... minute!

Over the lips an down the gums

watch out stomach - here it cums

Cheers!

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Yes, Eugene and Igor, that was my coin.

I'll better start a new topic on "the 1726 kopek", it is quite a story, I think I might still have a letter of the late V.V. Uzdennikov somewhere. All this was 25-30 years ago.

Give me a few days .

Sigi

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He came to see me from time to time - I lived then in Cologne, Germany. Last time was 1989 when he popped up unexpectedly out of the blue (he lived in Mexico), wanting to buy my 1726 kopek. I sold it to him for ~ $2400

But in the New York Sale 2 or 3 years ago that very coin (referenced to as ex-Brekke) was sold at $125.000.....50x my selling price...

Sigi

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Half of the collecting fun (if not more) is showing off

Here is my new pride, a piece from the Brekke Collection.

I remember Bernhard - now I have a souvenir.

Sigi

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Thank you very much, Rarenum I sent you a pm.

Sigi

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