BKB

Must be a modern fake, not forgery for circulation. Looks like toned copper.

In that case it is similar to this one:

http://www.rnumis.com/rnumis_research_0.php?db_pgtyp=db_pgtyp_rf_single&rf_id=435

made of tin... If you decide to sell them, let me know. I have a small collection of fakes.

Who has this coin? Is it really tin? Can someone confirm? Looks like a mishandled novodel to me. Does not look like a forgery for circulation.

very cute. congrats :-)

5 kop looks original. Sometimes patina on these can be this sort of metallic black. The others are counterfeits for circulation.

The horse side looks like a 28 with a "flying horse" (looks like the hat has a brim). the only real flying horse in 29 is different (I think...)

ya all plain crazy... chill out, a database is no reason for all this argument. I should post a few nice coins, because all we talk about is databases, fakes, and copyrights. And, I get enough legal arguments at work...

Ron, I have no idea what you said in post 15. Where did I say that a slab is a guarantee of coin most likely being an original? Experts NGC uses cannot tell fake from real nowadays. I am not even talking about problem series like Yefimoks. I am talking about 19th century copper coins.

I will say something else, and will shut up... Copper fakes (good ones) today are made by molding an original coin and that mold becomes a "die" capable of producing 10 - 15 fakes. Then they take an original in bad shape and "strike" a coin over it. The only way to tell these is to find twins. cannot tell it from looking at photos and comparison to an original coin. This is why I am out of overstrikes altogether. Anyone wondered where all those 1796 em PP came from lately? Used to be a fairly rare coin...

I have seen very nice edging jobs on 18th century fake silver rubles. I saw a common 5 kop of Catherine that was fake, and I would not be able to tell that it is a fake had it not been struck over a fake coin. Steve will confirm.

These are scary times, and I would do away with any RNS fakes for a purpose of a fake database. Anyone buying those as originals today with all the books and info available, as well as, different free databases -- is plain lazy, and it should serve him right.

As for me:

1. I do not buy overstrikes.

2. I am sticking to pedigree and known sources to buy more expensive coins.

3. I try not to worry too much about what I bought recently.

Scary times...

Ron,

What are you asking, exactly?.. We are at the point where fakes of more expensive coins can be discovered only by very experienced collectors. Forgeries are reportedly sold by all auctions (even the best of them). I bought one recently from a very reputable auctioneer -- I was only able to tell it because I have seen one previously from the same series. Also, I had it confirmed by an expert in Russia, because I do not trust myself completely.

Crazy quality fakes are published almost daily on Russian forums. One needs to use that resource in order to be able to compile any sort of useful fake database. I do not think too many good quality fakes were published by RNS...

although, mine is in better condition :-)

I bought one of these like 9-10 years ago on ebay for a few bucks.

I personally was going for Petrus, but sadly, was an under-bidder (yea, right...)

100% fake 2 kop. And, I would not be so fast as to call the other 2 (at least 1762) reputable coins. In the very least, I would not bid on them only after looking at these photos. Is there any provenance pre-1980s?

Even 2 kop in low grade is not a rare coin anymore. Coppers come up for sale regularly. 5 kop rare edge is still rare...

Looks like an original tri-centenial commemorative ruble. It is certainly worth something, but not much on the account of huge mintage and bad condition.

1. strange company to be in...

2. strange auction to pick to sell this thing

3. what Steve said

= I would stay away...

Zubov is too bad to compare. Although, the dies are similar enough. Basok's coin was completely different. The known overdate 1815/2 is also different die. I have half of mind (which is no surprise) that there was a large number of coins minted, but they were destroyed,or, otherwise disappeared.

The closest "2" is 22, which is too far away.

Who knows if it is real?... Looks better than anything that was posing as 1812 till now. There was that Basok's coin (maybe one day...)

Been looking for it for a long time. Then waiting for it for a long time -- years after purchase. I know it is not pretty. I know that in this condition it is hard to prove that it is real. Will have to do until I find an unc. coin.

maybe the person who ordered it did not know about it... Or, had an original 1 kop :-)

I saw them when he unpacked. But, being that I do not know anything about medals, I did not even ask...

There are plenty of books that list novodels. Brekke lists novodels; Bitkin does. Hard to find a catalog that does not...

Margoulis?

Story has it: first there were original dies used for novodel production. Then, when one or both deteriorated, new dies were cut. Then all newcut dies were destroyed to stop novodel production. Then new dies were cut to produce novodel sets for industrial fair. Then they were destroyed. Then the new dies were cut... Etc.

Do not understand the Q... You mean if there were few sets of dies prepared to stike novodels of the same coin for the same industrial fair, etc.? Doubt it...

There were many sets. GM coins are my preference... that is all.