BKB

Maybe they are thinking the future is more bleak? Not to mention, there is a way not to let it sell for less than you wanted for it.

some very nice coins. some..."not so nice"...

lol

No catalog yet.

I wonder why you say this?

Because that is what happened with a lot of coins from the previous parts...

Is that what they call the transitional eagle?

Is it possible that the slab is fake? This thing is too obvious even for ANACS...

What is this?!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1759-Russia-1-Kopeck-copper-coin-ANACS-AU50-/371190321731

I reckon the host coin is cut down to 85% of it's original size.

 

 

Which is, at least, strange, unless there was a multiple thaler for that type (1.5t) and it was used. Otherwise, the weight should be around 28 grams for both coins...

BKB - I still think it's a possibility with all due respect.

 

That said, has anyone saved a photo of a grivennik overstruck over a larger coin (and then cut) that was discussed a few years ago? I forgot to save it...

 

http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php/topic/20187-1755-grivennik-overstruck-on/

There is a judge in NY who once told me, that the words "with all due respect" mean F*** you :-) Anything in this life is possible. Some things are not very probable, though...

Can you show any examples where a coin's edge was filed round at a Russian mint after the coin was struck?

BKB - I think this may have been cut at the mint to match the size of the ruble. I don't think it's an ex-jewellery.

Highly unlikely (I have never seen anything like that done at the mint).

Struck over a taler of Silesia... Cleaned. The first rubles (1704 and 1705) were struck over other coins of the taler type. Normally it is impossible to distinguish details of the host coin. Identification of the host coin makes this piece extremely rare.

Sigi

 

.

Thank you

The edge looks worked, or something on these photos. Not normal to either a thaler or a rouble. At best, piece of jewelry in the past...

Anyone here can translate from spanish? Auto translation produced this disturbing bit: "They were minted on other European currencies hard type. In general it is impossible to distinguish the characteristics of the base currency. The failure to recognize the original coinage, makes this piece a very rare copy"

This is not a picture of the die. This is a hub. It was used to make dies (one of the steps).

The overdates on 2 particular coins I mentioned are significant because 1711 and 1713 rubles never existed, while there are overdates.

I wrote a lengthy reply, but decided to erase it. I will just give you one idea -- 1711/2 and 1713/4 1 ruble coins... I hope this makes you understand how naive your "proves" sounds. If it does not, well, I tried... :-)

yep. And, lets you check the registry without paying for memberships...

 

The real 1764 coins were sent along with dies and other instrument to Kolyvan Plant to be later used on Suzun mint. There are no known real 1764 coins at present that one could examine, not even a picture.

There is a bunch of overdates, where no real coins exist for the under-date. Whole line of 1760/1762... 1793 em 2 kop (not Paul's overstrike). 1764/1767 Siberia, apparently. Also, there is a bunch of novodels struck with original dies, where no original coin exists: all 1722 2 rubles (although, some claim there is 1 original struck with unhardened dies), all 180. rubles (although, some claim there are originals), etc.

Existence of 1767/4 does not prove that originals existed. Only that they might have existed. SO much stuff left to discover.

By the way, did you figure out whether that 1764 from Sincona was a novodel or a fake?

PCGS photo. Cannot take credit for it. Thank you for the advice...

Trying to figure out how to use Omnicoin. And, showing off at the same time:-)

Very usefull info. and currently the best book about Shestak and Tympf's is Ryabtsevich book .For varaity Diakov book is very good but more expencive.

Rarenum

Yep, very useful info, indeed. It is from Ryabtsevich book. Interesting enough, though, our new Polish friend who made me look for the book, and then re-read the damn thing, did not even acknowledge the receipt. Well, I am kinda ok I re-read it, because I forgot a lot of info., and it was interesting to read again. But...

Background: War with Carl (carolus) XII; August II enters into a secret "treaty" with Carl, overtly remaining an "ally" of Russia; meanwhile, Russia, oblivious to the fact of double-dealing, is forced to pay August insane sums of money in exchange for promises to maintain the army and to enter into the war (or, something like that) Russia also has a large military presence in Poland, which is also very expensive. Polish diplomats demand that russian wire kopek is valued as 120/130 kopeks = 1 thaler, in order to maintain a stable trade situation in Poland. In 1705 August and Peter, in Grodno, agree to minting of coin of Polish likeness. Minting of Tynfs and payments using this coinage produced 10-25% profit, unlike silver kopeks. In reality, could have been even higher, due to the fact that a lot of these coins were minted from very "bad" silver. Composition of silver under 500 and sometimes close to 350 in the alloy was found during the inspection.

Mintage: appears (from documents) to be in the millions. No info on what happened to it. You should look into Polish sources, because after 1709 it became a Polish problem... There may be some info on how this influx of "bad" coin was handled. Would be nice if you could find something.

No info on what happened to the coins, other than that practically all were used in Poland (territory of Ukraine and Belorussia now) and were legally circulating until 1714. A bit of that coin was "circulating" on Russian territories until 1723. Due to bad quality, no one wanted to accept these in Prussia, Germany (where the war continued) or the Polish territories.

No info why that denomination, as opposite to other small denominations.

Will look for something on those 2 patterns over the weekend. No promises...

Ok, let me dig up that book. Gotto be somewhere on one of those shelves... Pattern info should be somewhere in Uzenikov.

thank you for re-linking me to the TM thread, Eugene. I must have missed it when it was active. Very educational for me. Especially the history of the mint there.

 

I do have a lonely 1787 TM 5k, and its metal quality is less than wonderful, to be sure,and quite a dark patina, typical of impurities in the copper , such as commonly seen in Siberian coinage. Although I recall the Siberian mined copper included silver and gold in small amounts, which could not be well separated out at the time. Have you seen any analysis of TM copper discussed on the Russian language coin forums?

I believe they got refining Siberian copper ore under control by late 1766. Thus, whatever came after 66-67, did not have much of gold/silver in it. After that, they were just using the original argument for weight/denomination ratio, without much truth as to real metal composition...

Shostaks are insanely rare. Tympfs are very possible lately in any condition (available funds permitting). Too bad you do not understand Russian, because there is a book that describes this issue + history and politics behind it in good detail... Do you have any specific questions? I may be able to dig out that book and try to answer them. Otherwise, it is, like, 200 pages of information...