Ætheling Posted June 25, 2005 Report Share Posted June 25, 2005 Still in it's holder for you crystaltalk... I'll be shipping this copper twopence off to you on monday. You know in 15 years of collecting i've never actually owned one of these. I guess i finally do own one now, albeit briefly, thursday-monday. Four days! I hope you like it... (okay i should have shrunk these!) (I even like the chocolate tone, but i have a soft spot for George III copper cos my first coin was a George III penny). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labmom Posted June 25, 2005 Report Share Posted June 25, 2005 very pretty coin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ætheling Posted June 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2005 At 41mm and 2 ounces in weight (that's regular ounces) A very big and very heavy coin, imagine 120 of them jangling, alright thudding in your pocket. You can see why they didn't take off in a big way. 1797 only year of issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggit Posted June 25, 2005 Report Share Posted June 25, 2005 very nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trantor_3 Posted June 25, 2005 Report Share Posted June 25, 2005 That's one coin I want to own some day, a cartwheel twopence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 The Cartwheel 2d is thought to have been struck up to 1830 (all dated 1797) with further commerative issues after this. Peck spent a lot of research on the 1d and 2d cartwheels and there are numerous varieties. Finding one without an edgeknock is the key. £1 = nearly 6.5kg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 OMG, that reminded me of the massive Russian 5 kopeks coins Or rather, the Swedish and Russian copper plates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccg Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 My understanding is that you can usually tell the later issues as the dies got rusty. Is that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ætheling Posted June 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 The Cartwheel 2d is thought to have been struck up to 1830 (all dated 1797) with further commerative issues after this.Peck spent a lot of research on the 1d and 2d cartwheels and there are numerous varieties. That i didn't know. I honestly thought they'd only been minted in 1797-99 and mintage had ceased around the century change over. Although i've never focus on copper/bronze coins so my knowledge of them is next to nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 Although I'm a copper collector its a not series I have studied in detail. I've just got "good rimmed examples " of both coins. Matthew Boulton in 1797 was given the contract to produce these coins. His mint was based in Soho, Birmingham (not the red light Soho of London). The presses were operated by steam. The idea behind the cartwheel coinage was to prevent counterfeiting...previous copper was being melted down and reshaped on thin flans (evasions) and these were being widely excepted by the public. By 1805 (Battle of Trafalgar..Nelson et al) intrinsic metal value had increased to exceed face value by 30% on cartwheels. The dies were eventually sold to W Taylor who issued his own collectors editions. I don't think rusty dies caused the varieties. The ship,drapery,waves,rocks,sea positions and stops were often altered. In coin fairs in the UK I have noticed specialist collectors searching out the specimens and the price varience is tremendous for the finer examples. Its a specialist field.....Pecks reference work covers 50 pages for the coinage of 1797.Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ætheling Posted June 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 In coin fairs in the UK I have noticed specialist collectors searching out the specimens and the price varience is tremendous for the finer examples.Its a specialist field.....Pecks reference work covers 50 pages for the coinage of 1797.Hope this helps. Fifty pages! Why do copper/bronze collectors always have to go totally nuts with the varieties. Silver collectors just record things like spelling errors, over dates and more noticable lettering/design varaiants. Minor lettering positions and sizes tends to be just classed under the blanket term of "many varieties and types abound" with no real effort to persue them further. Which i always though was a sensible option, because you have to draw the line somewhere, if you don't you'll end up classing every single coin minted of a type as a different variety, as of course they are all unique to a 150th of an inch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 I agree fully but the copper collector in the UK has had specialist books written in far greater numbers than any other denomination. In the 19C Montaqu's Copper coins of England started the trend...Then we had Peck's Epic in the 60's followed by Freemans in the 70's. All these together with specialists from the 70's have lifted the study of copper and bronze. Just recently there were 8 distinct varieties for the 1881H farthing issued....my original aim was 1672 to 1956 in 1/4d's but recently I've been shot out of water due to new varieties being listed....(Spink et al eventually catch up). There are also 8 published varieties of the 1721 1/4d ....I have the commonest in VF+ and the rarest in fine. I am tending to move over to hammered because each coin is practically unique. Overall I love my hobby and confess I have recently embarked on a US type set and full cent collection....but the US price for some cents cough....However I just found a 1875 IHC I bought not knowing about it a couple of years back....from an antique centre...where all his coins are £1 or £1.50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ætheling Posted June 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 Varieties are the reason (well one of them) why i won't dabble in copper/bronze. Because even if you attempt the simplest of date runs you get snookered half way through when the number you have to get suddenly gets doubled. I'm one of these collectors that likes to have them all ticked off as got. I figure well what's the point i'd never have a complete collection and do i really want 30 odd or more pennies/farthings all dated 1860? Varieties can be a real pain in the backside. A few here and there can add spice to a series, a whole series with 16 or more varieties of each date, then count me out. Also the reason i moved into hammered, you can just do it by type as every coin is unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 May I be so bold to say Hi and enjoy the brief meeting with CP.2.1 ETC..I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 May I be so bold to say Hi and enjoy the brief meeting with CP.2.1 ETC..I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 May I be so bold to say Hi and enjoy the brief meeting with CP.2.1 ETC..I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ætheling Posted June 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 May I be so bold to say Hi and enjoy the brief meeting with CP.2.1 ETC..I reckon. Ey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBruce Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 May I be so bold to say Hi and enjoy the brief meeting with CP.2.1 ETC..I reckon. Peter - what are you on about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalk64 Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 That coin has "Take me home to INDIANA" written all over it! Can't wait to get it in my hands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 Andy....I thought there was a pseudonym lurking....my suspicious mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ætheling Posted June 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 As if. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 My lips are sealed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBruce Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 My lips are sealed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalk64 Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 That cartwheel should be rolling into Indiana any day now? Working on some Washers for a trip across the big pond! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ætheling Posted July 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 Well i sent it off on either Thursday or friday last, i forget which exactly. I've posted almost everything, except one for Kuhli which i need his address and another one for Trantor. I will remember to send the bicentenial quarter... i will remember! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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