syzygy Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 I picked this up while going through a dealer's inventory of Italian coins. Obviously it is not a coin, but I wonder if anybody has any ideas about its identification or any other relevant information. The 'token' has two obverses, which caught my attention as being a bit unusual. It is very light and may be aluminum. The diameter is about 26 mm. The rulers of Italy and Germany depicted would be appropriate for about 1880, if I am reading correctly. Note the use of 'J' instead of 'I' - presumably to distinguish it from legal coinage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 That's pretty neat. I have several Italian two headed "coins" that are cast in lead. I've been told that many were made during WWII. Why? I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabbs Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 Umberto I was king of Italy between 1878 and 1900; Wilhelm II was German Emperor between 1888 and 1918. So I suppose this piece is Italian and from 1888-1900 ... In 1893 for example Wilhelm met Umberto in Rome. Maybe the medal was made on that occasion? Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 Interesting use of a `J' at the start of `Italia' and `Imperatore' . They must have ran out of the letter `I' ....... or is that an `italian' thing? :-) Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elverno Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 The Italians in particular used a J interchangeably with the I for a long time, as did the Germans. I have several IETONs (instead of JETON) from the Laurer workshop in Nuremburg and have several medals that do the same. In fact this coin: substituted the J for the 1s in the date on the reverse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syzygy Posted December 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Umberto I was king of Italy between 1878 and 1900; Wilhelm II was German Emperor between 1888 and 1918. So I suppose this piece is Italian and from 1888-1900 ... In 1893 for example Wilhelm met Umberto in Rome. Maybe the medal was made on that occasion? Christian That meeting is a possibility, at least it makes sense as to why it has those two obverses - thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syzygy Posted December 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 The Italians in particular used a J interchangeably with the I for a long time, as did the Germans. I have several IETONs (instead of JETON) from the Laurer workshop in Nuremburg and have several medals that do the same. In fact this coin:/- -/ substituted the J for the 1s in the date on the reverse! Ahhh, interesting. Was this done during a particular period, or just in general? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabbs Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Maybe that goes back to the ancient Romans? Latin did not have/use the "J" letter, so I think that I and J were for a long time considered to be the same character ... Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syzygy Posted December 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Maybe that goes back to the ancient Romans? Latin did not have/use the "J" letter, so I think that I and J were for a long time considered to be the same character ... Christian You beat me to it! After thinking about it (and doing some checking) there is no letter J in the Italian alphabet (or Latin) - I agree with you - it is just a different way of writing the letter I - which is exactly what Elverno was saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 The Italians in particular used a J interchangeably with the I for a long time, as did the Germans. I have several IETONs (instead of JETON) from the Laurer workshop in Nuremburg and have several medals that do the same. I never thought of the Germans. True though. I've noticed various spellings on the Nuremburg jetons, `IETON' and `IECTON' being the most common. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elverno Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 I'll have to try to remember to dig it out but I can recall at least one medal from the Napoleonic era that has Is instead of Js in the legends. Of course it was a Latin inscription so that brings us looping back on the previous comments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted December 24, 2005 Report Share Posted December 24, 2005 I'll have to try to remember to dig it out but I can recall at least one medal from the Napoleonic era that has Is instead of Js in the legends. Of course it was a Latin inscription so that brings us looping back on the previous comments... I've learned something in this thread. I've also just had a look at your web site. Some pretty excellent stuff there (medals AND Conders)! One question though...there's no sign of any jetons (silver or otherwise). Why not? There are some pretty neat jetons emanating from the Napoleonic era. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elverno Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 I think it depends on your definition of a jeton. This one is a jeton issued by a Masonic lodge in Rouen and dates from 1808. By the French definition of a jeton I have almost 150 on my site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiffibunny Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Beautiful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 I think it depends on your definition of a jeton. This one is a jeton issued by a Masonic lodge in Rouen and dates from 1808. By the French definition of a jeton I have almost 150 on my site. Lol! I was obviously not looking hard enough. Will look closer this time...... BTW, neat jeton. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 I think it depends on your definition of a jeton. This one is a jeton issued by a Masonic lodge in Rouen and dates from 1808. By the French definition of a jeton I have almost 150 on my site. Most of my jetons are pre -napoleon but I should have one or two from the period that I don't think you have. Might be of some interest to you. I'll dig them out. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elverno Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Actually since my interest spans 1789-1815 you might have a lot I'd like to see. Besides that I really enjoy the wholed gamut of medals and jetons; it's tough enough to try to collect a 26 year span though so I limit myself to looking at others' collections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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