Ian Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 The French `jeton de presence' was used as a means of token payment for such things as attendance at meetings, or sitting on committees commissioned by the Government or issued as tokens of appreciation by the various offices of state including the royal households. As such the scope for these is immense. Some bodies issuing only one, others issuing a different jeton each year and over a period sometimes exceeding a century. Although there is an ever growing band of `jeton collectors', these items are generally still mostly unheard of outside of France. I have been collecting them now for some five years or so and have been fascinated by the historical and cultural backdrop to most of these little gems. It has to be said that their individual mintages are generally numbered in the lower thousands (with some few exceptions), so none of them are exactly `common' in numismatic terms. However that does not mean that they are expensive either. Sure, many are hyper scarce and will cost a pretty penny, but there are real beauties out there that can be had for a song. I'm pretty sure that the collecting fraternity will one day waken up to this particular `sleeper' hence the reason why I grab as many as I can. :-) Here's one that arrived with me just this morning. A jeton designed for the Guild of Master Masons by Duvivier circa 1780 and struck at La Monnaie, Paris. Note, this Guild was nothing to do with the `freemasons'. Another thing to be considered about these items is that they were produced when silver was the basis of the currency unit. Many of these `jetons' did indeed change hands in exchange for goods or services even though not exactly strictly `legal tender'. The second one in this post is a more modern piece issued for one of the Maritime Insurance Companies. The item was, like most of this type. most probably issued to council members for attendance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elverno Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 I had a friend who possesses a copy of Marvin's book on Masonic medals to take a look at the first jeton and his partial response was: Anyway, thanks for this picture - it's sort of listed in Marvin, in that the reverse is perfectly described, but the obverse is listed as depicting a helmeted Minerva. So I think Marvin missed this one, which is a variation of a previous jeton. Certainly, he did not catalogue the male portrait on the obverse of this one shown. I'm fairly certain that Louis XVI wasn't a Mason but I might be mistaken about that. His brother, the Duc d'Orleans was the Grand Master of France at the time of the Revolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie582 Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Would you class a 'mereaux' as a jeton, albeit early? (See my avatar) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted November 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 I had a friend who possesses a copy of Marvin's book on Masonic medals to take a look at the first jeton and his partial response was:I'm fairly certain that Louis XVI wasn't a Mason but I might be mistaken about that. His brother, the Duc d'Orleans was the Grand Master of France at the time of the Revolution. Fascinating. The thinking in France is (I believe) that a secret society would not be as overt with their jetons, nor would a King be associated so directly as having his image on the obverse. This contradicts earlier thinking. There is an earlier jeton same reverse but bearing the bust of Louis XV, probably circa 1740 -50. So if Marvin missed the Louis XVI one, he probably missed a couple of Louis XV too . Gadoury's 1991 catalogue lists three different busts with that same reverse under the category `Master Masons' and unfortunately `and masonic interests', giving the impression that it is connected to free masonery. I am of the view that the jeton lies more properly alongside such series as Experts des Batiments (du Roi). I need to dig out my CGB catalogues as I recall Michel Prieur commenting along the lines that these items are not actually (free) masonic and that values of them had dropped off due to this. I haven't come across one with that reverse AND a Minerva bust. However, i've just posted a masonic piece with Minerva on it in the`Minerva' thread :-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted February 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 ok, it took me a wee bit of time, but i finally manage to acquire an example of a Louis XV jeton minted for the `master masons'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I like that image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted February 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I've been very fortunate these past few months with my purchases and have managed to obtain quite a few relatively scarce and even rare items. I've managed to find some time to scan most of them and put them up on omnicoin just in case anyone is interested. The one below is a silver jeton de presence minted for Lloyd Francais (Paris) an assurance syndicate which covered maritime risks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmarotta Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 ... a silver jeton de presence minted for Lloyd Francais (Paris) an assurance syndicate which covered maritime risks. I think I heard of them. In fact, I just now finished a cup of coffee. Funny thing, coffee: in England coffeehouses of the Age of Reason created bank clearinghouses and insurance companies; in France, the coffeehouses of the Enlightenment spawned the Encyclopedists and the Revolution. Nice medal, too, Ian: you have a great eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Another Lloyd assurance syndicate jeton de presence. This time `Lloyd Rouennais', based (as the name suggests) at Rouen and covering maritime risks. Strange thing is that this is a pretty scarce item and I managed to buy it on ebay for next to nothing. I think that might be due to the fact that it looks very similar (at a cursory glance that is) to other seated mercury type jetons. In any event I struck lucky, although I was having kittens due to the length of time it took to arrive via `La Poste'. Normally a package from France is with me in 2 -3 days but this one for some reason known only to the postal services, took three weeks. I was very relieved when it arrived yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmarotta Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Very nice. I wonder what could be done with Lloyd's as a theme? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Strange thing is that this is a pretty scarce item and I managed to buy it on ebay for next to nothing. I think that might be due to the fact that it looks very similar (at a cursory glance that is) to other seated mercury type jetons. Knowledge is power and you are a very knowledgeable guy, good for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elverno Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I love the cheap, rare ones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted August 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Another couple of jetons issued for various maritime assurers in France. The first just arrived with me today and was near the top of my `wants' list. It was issued for the `Comptoir Maritime' and is R1 in terms of rarity The second is another difficult to find jeton which was issued for a syndicate of assurance companies in Marseille that covered maritime risks (1860) The third is a copper jeton issued for La Centrale in 1854. I have one struck in silver, but the copper issue is much more scarce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 These are wonderful items to collect. The artwork and engraving is super. Perhaps in a future life I'll be able to expand my collection a bit. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted April 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 my third example of a jeton minted for the `master masons' engaged by the king of France. This one is a younger bust of Louis XV than the previous and dates to circa 1725-30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art1.2 Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 I really like that. The building and scene is beautifully done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 What Art said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted April 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 This is an example of a rare jeton that was struck to commemorate the establishment of a Royal refinery (silver and gold refining) at Trevoux, the main city in the Principality of Dombes, France. The refinery at Trevoux was the third such refinery in France, the other two being sited at Paris and Lyon. In 1762 Dombes was fully integrated into France and Louis XV was keen to consolidate this, The refinery was his way of doing so. The jeton itself bears the mature bust of Louis XV obverse. The reverse shows a view of Trevoux, with the city wall (left), the Refinery in the middle distance, and a horse drawn barge in front of it. The jeton also evidences being struck with either dirty or deteriorating dies (or both). The `C' in Christianiss (obv) is `filled', suggesting part of the die has chipped and some parts of the reverse legend arw faint suggesting grease or dirt filling the die. It's particularly evident in the exergue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 To appreciate the reverse on that jeton requires a larger image, or to put it another way, that reverse deserves a larger image Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 The jeton also evidences being struck with either dirty or deteriorating dies (or both). The `C' in Christianiss (obv) is `filled', suggesting part of the die has chipped and some parts of the reverse legend arw faint suggesting grease or dirt filling the die. It's particularly evident in the exergue. I think they had a real problem with dies rusting quite rapidly. I believe it is more common than seeing pieces without evidence of rusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted April 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Although there was a massive exercise to preserve /replace damaged dies at La Monnaie in the late 18th C, this was more as a `let's preserve our heritage for the future' than a `real time' problem with dies disintegrating during the minting process. The main evidence of damaged dies i've observed is in the form of die cracks. Occasionally you will find a jeton with significant and spectacular cuds, but then again i've examples of spectacular cuds on US coinage and Uk coinages, so there is nothing new under the sun in that respect. There are a couple of specific issues where a reverse flaw appear on jetons issued over a significant number of years and sometimes bearing the busts of different monarchs (indicating the same die has been used for decades). The jeton shown would have had a mintage in the hundreds, so it is difficult to understand the die having being significantly `challenged' by the quantity involved in the striking. More likely there was too much grease around,and some dirt got in the way. I've only seen one other example of this particular jeton, so i'm quite ignorant as to whether this was a typical example of thew run, or a late strike etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted April 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 To appreciate the reverse on that jeton requires a larger image, or to put it another way, that reverse deserves a larger image The spirit is willing but the understanding and use of technology (and technique) is weak. The image as scanned is fairly detailed, however I usually post via `omnicoin' as being an easy way of attaching images to posts on coinpeops'. More than happy to post the larger images if I knew how to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 The jeton below was struck in 1758 during the reign of Louis XV for the `Prieurs et Juges /Consuls de Dieppe' , This was a judicial body set up under an edict of Henri II in 1563 to regulate commercial activity and resolve problems arising between merchants. The merchants decided amongst themselves the election of the `Prior' (in this case, the person acting as the spokesperson for the court) and the Judges to act in this capacity and bestowed significant powers, including the right to determine and administer bankruptcy. These jetons were issued as a means of recompense for the performance of these roles and would be `paid' to the members of this `merchant court' as an honorarium. I am not aware of the number of jetons that would comprise the honorarium. The bust on the obverse and the obverse legend is unique to this particular issue. Coupled with the low mintage for the issue it is categorized as being rare. This example is relatively high grade with original lustre which my flatbed scanner fails to justify Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art1.2 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 The jeton below was struck in 1758 during the reign of Louis XV for the `Prieurs et Juges /Consuls de Dieppe' , This was a judicial body set up under an edict of Henri II in 1563 to regulate commercial activity and resolve problems arising between merchants. The merchants decided amongst themselves the election of the `Prior' (in this case, the person acting as the spokesperson for the court) and the Judges to act in this capacity and bestowed significant powers, including the right to determine and administer bankruptcy. These jetons were issued as a means of recompense for the performance of these roles and would be `paid' to the members of this `merchant court' as an honorarium. I am not aware of the number of jetons that would comprise the honorarium. The bust on the obverse and the obverse legend is unique to this particular issue. Coupled with the low mintage for the issue it is categorized as being rare. This example is relatively high grade with original lustre which my flatbed scanner fails to justify Nice jeton and info Ian. I'm sure that any collector would be proud to have this piece in their collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constanius Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Another beauty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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