sigistenz Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Hi friends - this coin looks suspicious Is ít reoverstruck from the 10 - ДЕСЯТЬ - kopek 1796 ? I hope eagle eyes gxseries will also comment. Thank you, Sigi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 hi Sigi it can be easy but hard to say by photo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 This stuff really does look like letters, but I can't picture how these traces relate to the 1796 design. What does the edge look like? Any traces of a rope edge under the grid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 I think I know what Sigi is trying to illustrate. First obverse picture would be the letter "D" for "D"ECYaTB. This is more difficult than I expected. Sigi, can you please take it with a bit more light and have it on a angle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted July 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 This stuff really does look like letters, but I can't picture how these traces relate to the 1796 design. What does the edge look like? Any traces of a rope edge under the grid? There is no rope edge known for 1796AM. The edge is the normal AM reticulated edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted July 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 I think I know what Sigi is trying to illustrate. First obverse picture would be the letter "D" for "D"ECYaTB. This is more difficult than I expected. Sigi, can you please take it with a bit more light and have it on a angle? Yes, it looks like a cyrillic D. As the coin was lacqered it is now bathing in acetone. Once stripped I'll make new pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 There is no rope edge known for 1796AM. The edge is the normal AM reticulated edge. For 1796 AM 10 kopeeks the edge should be rope. If this is an overstrike of a 1796 10 kopeeks this coin should have at least some trace of over edging from the 1796 AM 10 kopeeks to the recoined "1796" AM 5 kopeeks with reticulated edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 For 1796 AM 10 kopeeks the edge should be rope. If this is an overstrike of a 1796 10 kopeeks this coin should have at least some trace of over edging from the 1796 AM 10 kopeeks to the recoined "1796" AM 5 kopeeks with reticulated edge. You are perfectly right - I only checked Wolmar and Conros catalogs where there is no mention of a rope edge variant for 5kop1796AM. Logically a 10kop1796AM with its rope edge should leave at least traces of that edge when reoverstruck into a 5kop1796AM. Thank you for widening my horizon! But sadly enough my coin doesn't reveal the slightest trace of a rope edge It is just reticulated. The 10kop1796 were not issued for circulation. So it is very unlikely that AM reoverstruck any reticulated edge 10kop1796 from another mint, but only their own rope edged 10kop1796AM. This means that my coin is likely just a normal 5kop1796AM without more. Sigi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 I have to disagree - re-edging may not have necessarily occured. Quite unlikely but can happen. Sigi, I'm still waiting for more photos. Photos of the edge of the coin would be good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 i would stay with gxseries and wait for more LARGE photos fro Sigi, especially areas with traces of letters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Sorry for the delay but that many pictures take time. As pictures should show details but are limited here to 500K I'll have to split my 12 pictures into 5 postings. I took 4 each of date side, eagle side and edge. Attached are the first 2 of date side. The 2nd 2 of date side to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Sorry for the delay but that many pictures take time. As pictures should show details but are limited here to 500K I'll have to split my 12 pictures into 5 postings. I took 4 each of date side, eagle side and edge. Attached are the first 2 of date side. The 2nd 2 of date side to follow. Attached the 2nd 2 pictures of date side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Sorry for the delay but that many pictures take time. As pictures should show details but are limited here to 500K I'll have to split my 12 pictures into 5 postings. I took 4 each of date side, eagle side and edge. Attached are the first 2 of eagle side. The 2nd 2 of eagle side to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Sorry for the delay but that many pictures take time. As pictures should show details but are limited here to 500K I'll have to split my 12 pictures into 5 postings. I took 4 each of date side, eagle side and edge. Attached are the first 2 of eagle side. The 2nd 2 of eagle side to follow. Here are the 2nd 2 of the eagle side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 And finally the edge 90 degree wise as before. Looking forward to your comments, thank you Sigi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Interesting, very very interesting. Sigi, have you tried to remove as much junk as possible? I don't know how comfortable with using toothpicks but you might want to give the edge a shot? Still think there's something there. I'll do a photo analysis when I get the time - work has been very rough on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobh Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 I can't see any traces of overstriking on the coin surfaces, and the edge should show more traces of the rope edge if there was a re-edging involved. But I'm certainly no expert on these things, although I have studied them to a certain degree. Sigi, did you measure the diameter and thickness? If overstruck, it should be somewhat wider and flatter than a regular pyatak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Not too sure if you like this or not: I'm figuring this is where the underlayer is to be at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 This topic is murder on my eyesight!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted August 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 I can't see any traces of overstriking on the coin surfaces, and the edge should show more traces of the rope edge if there was a re-edging involved. But I'm certainly no expert on these things, although I have studied them to a certain degree. Sigi, did you measure the diameter and thickness? If overstruck, it should be somewhat wider and flatter than a regular pyatak. Bob, on my 1st picture there is an arrow pointing to what looks like a previous Д (from ДЕСЯТЬ). The reoverstrikes are sometimes larger than the regular coins - and sometimes they aren't. There were quite some examples in the Bakken sale, compare the pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigistenz Posted August 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Not too sure if you like this or not: I'm figuring this is where the underlayer is to be at. Very interesting, Hisa! What do you think - could it be a re-overstrike? What about the other side? Thank you for your time. I tried to remove the green stuff out of the edge's holes but without much success. It would go away by cooking the coin in soda but the color would probably suffer. Sigi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 i can clearly read KOPEEK !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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