allen.moore Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Can you believe this has actually shown up on eBay? (unless it's not real...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 bad fake. often on ebay... that little "n" tells the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen.moore Posted March 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 bad fake. often on ebay... that little "n" tells the story. Same seller, same story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Paul's recoining?? Ciphers were struck under Catherine II (real ones, at least) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Same seller, same story? This one's fine. Common 1758 5K of Elizabeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Paul's recoining?? Ciphers were struck under Catherine II (real ones, at least) Maybe the guy who produced these was also named Paul? After all, Pasha is a very common Russian name However, judging by the same little "n" -- that could also be the initial of an engraver (like P.U., etc.) So, it could be Nicholas's recoining -- after all, Kolya, is also a very common name in Russia... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen.moore Posted March 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Maybe the guy who produced these was also named Paul? After all, Pasha is a very common Russian name However, judging by the same little "n" -- that could also be the initial of an engraver (like P.U., etc.) So, it could be Nicholas's recoining -- after all, Kolya, is also a very common name in Russia... Sorry for any confusion - I was using the description from Uzdenikov (page 259 of my English-Russian version, Variety 6). I suddenly realized I was looking at the wrong variety. What is shown on eBay is actually Variety 7, which Uzdenikov describes as "coin of new pattern." The book also makes mention of the "N" mark (Cyrillic "H") as being somewhat rare, but the illustration shown in Uzdenikov is not sufficiently detailed to compare the eBay photo with. So, there you go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 WHAT BOOK?! There is a book that lists these fakes as rare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Aha... If you are looking at Uzdenikov's book and see ( H ) next to the coin, it means that there is an official novodel that is hard to distinguish from the original. The piece of guano you showed has nothing in common with an official novodel, except, maybe, they were both made in a year different from that on the item. But, that is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholasz219 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 I would like the 10K 1796 Pattern with the ten stars around the eagle. I love that coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 I would like the 10K 1796 Pattern with the ten stars around the eagle. I love that coin. Not sure that I'm familiar with this pattern. Sounds like that fantasy piece with 1764/1796 obverse/reverse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Not sure that I'm familiar with this pattern. Sounds like that fantasy piece with 1764/1796 obverse/reverse? These actually appear (and are illustrated) in Von Winklers 60-page monograph on the Cipher series and the subsequent re-coining: Overstriking of Copper Coins 1796-1797 (St. Petersburg, 1898). The eagle is described as being struck from a 'novodel' die of a 1762 Peter III 10K. At this point I don't know when they were made, but they've clearly been around for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-kuna Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Can you believe this has actually shown up on eBay? (unless it's not real...) these modern overstirkes were discussed few times already and made for educational purposes in Russia for schools and some local region museums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Not sure that I'm familiar with this pattern. Sounds like that fantasy piece with 1764/1796 obverse/reverse? I was flipping thru Bitkin the other day, and this was in there, among others, as a pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 I was flipping thru Bitkin the other day, and this was in there, among others, as a pattern. I'm surprised that it would be classified as a pattern instead of a Novodel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 I'm surprised that it would be classified as a pattern instead of a Novodel I stand corrected, Alex. It is a Novodel, not a pattern. Bitkin II, p.676 H8955 and H896. That does make more sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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