alexbq2 Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 First of all, I'd like to say that I am patiently awaiting Steve's review of the copper coinage of Nicholas I. But in the mean time I decided to ask the opinion of the forum members with regards to the scarcity or even rarity of the above mentioned variant. I don't believe many authors single it out. Only Petrov gives it a 2 rouble estimate. I'm afraid I haven't seen too many of them, so in my opinion it is somewhat scarce. What is your impression? Here's mine: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 There is a few of them on Molotok right now. Here is a couple: http://saratov.molotok.ru/item1436912826_5_kopeek_1831_em_bez_znaka_mincmejstera.html http://volga.molotok.ru/item1444343697_5_kop_1831_em_bez_inicialov_mincmejstera.html They seem to be a few times more expensive than the ones with mm initials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 First of all, I'd like to say that I am patiently awaiting Steve's review of the copper coinage of Nicholas I. Thanks. JRNS is probably in the mail as we speak! Longest and most difficult study I've yet done. To answer your question though, in the study there were 1831EM ФХ 170 1831EM <none> 24 Combined, the 1831EM is the second most common 5 Kopeck of the 1830-1839 series. You can probably guess the most common. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 I had never seen the one I liked enough to buy. Certainly a lot more rare than em/fx. On the other hand, there is so many em/fx, that it is hard to speak of absolute rarity, just comparative rarity. What is the most common one? 1834 or 1835? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted February 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 You can probably guess the most common. Steve Thank you for the info Steve. I would guess 1833 as the most common. How often does 1837 EM-FX show up? This is the best I could get: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 I would guess 1833 as the most common. How often does 1837 EM-FX show up? Absolutely right. The 1833EM 5 Kopecks was actually the most common coin in the entire Nicholas I copper study. 1837 EM-FX 5 Kopecks is not that difficult. I saw FX-41 KT-68 NA-54. I actually saw less 1838EM (36) and 1839EM (33). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted February 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 1837 EM-FX 5 Kopecks is not that difficult. I saw FX-41 KT-68 NA-54. I actually saw less 1838EM (36) and 1839EM (33). That is surprising! So from the relative rarity standpoint 1831 EM no mintmaster is the hardest coin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 That is surprising! So from the relative rarity standpoint 1831 EM no mintmaster is the hardest coin? Of the 1831-1839 EM 5 Kopecks, yes. The 1830EM is course, much rarer, as are some of the CM 5Ks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted February 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 Of the 1831-1839 EM 5 Kopecks, yes. The 1830EM is course, much rarer, as are some of the CM 5Ks. 1830's are Novodels so I can forget about them, and I guess some late CMs are rare - or are there any surprises? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 There are novodels, yes. But there are also real coins for both 1830 SPB and EM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Julian Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 Thanks. JRNS is probably in the mail as we speak! Longest and most difficult study I've yet done. Steve Actually the material will go to the printer Tuesday or Wednesday and be mailed about 10 to 12 days after that. The article by Steve is outstanding and a must for anyone interested in the copper coinage of Nicholas I. RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted February 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 There are novodels, yes. But there are also real coins for both 1830 SPB and EM. By 'real' do you mean patterns or actual coins meant for circulation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterShell Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 It is interesting because I thought that 1837 EM FH is the second in rarity after 1830 next (in some books) is 1838 CM and 1839 CM. Than we have: 1831 EM, 1835 CM, 1836 CM and 1837 CM ... I still have problem with most of the CM's although I have 1837 EM FH, 1837 EM KT and 1837 EM NA ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted February 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 It is interesting because I thought that 1837 EM FH is the second in rarity after 1830 next (in some books) is 1838 CM and 1839 CM. Than we have: 1831 EM, 1835 CM, 1836 CM and 1837 CM ... I still have problem with most of the CM's although I have 1837 EM FH, 1837 EM KT and 1837 EM NA ... I have to say that I have not payed much attention to the CM's I have a few. I think 1831, 1832 and 1834. They are badly struck, and I try to get those that are not too ugly. I have been hunting for 1831 EM and 1837 EM-FX for some time though. I have a duplicate of 1831 EM, but that 1837 EM-FX is the only one I was able to get my hands on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 By 'real' do you mean patterns or actual coins meant for circulation? Patterns. They are listed in every modern catalog including Brekke. Some ended up in circulation, though. I have an 1830 EM/FX 5 kop with obvious signs of circulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted February 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Patterns. They are listed in every modern catalog including Brekke. Some ended up in circulation, though. I have an 1830 EM/FX 5 kop with obvious signs of circulation. They are, but I'm not sure how one distinguishes between a novodel and a pattern? Presumably a novodel should not enter circulation though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 They are, but I'm not sure how one distinguishes between a novodel and a pattern? If there is a will -- there is a way. Much easier with SPB, than EM. With EM you would look at the shape of FX and the color. Also, the type of strike and the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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