Red Baron Medal

[Blackhawk]

This 37mm silver medal by Karl Goetz commemorates Baron Manfred von Richthoffen (the Red Baron), WWI flying ace of Germany. There is a die crack from the rim to the eagle at about 7:30 on the reverse. It was a recent Ebay purchase.

 

[constanius]

The arrow through 89 must be significant. I know he is credited with 80 kills, but the kill was the plane. Some planes had two occupants & some airmen survived the kill. Maybe the 89 is the number of allied airmen that actually died. Do you have any info about that?

 

Alternately, 89 might have been the number of kills that was claimed at that time, and that figure was subsequently lowered to 80.

[constanius]

The arrow through 89 must be significant. I know he is credited with 80 kills, but the kill was the plane. Some planes had two occupants & some airmen survived the kill. Maybe the 89 is the number of allied airmen that actually died. Do you have any info about that?

 

Alternately, 89 might have been the number of kills that was claimed at that time, and that figure was subsequently lowered to 80.

 

I found this on-line

Medaille 1918. Auf den Tod des Fliegers Manfred Freiherr von Richthofen an der Somme. Brustbild / Adler und Grabstein. 36,7 mm, 19,67 g. Kienast 288, Kaiser 838, Zetzmann 6037 Price: 138.07 US$. 95,00 EUR

My second theory was right, the number of kills was altered.

 

Your medal had this info "Medaille 1918. Auf den Tod des Fliegers Manfred Freiherr von Richthofen an der Somme. Brustbild / Adler und Grabstein. Mit falscher Abschußzahl und falschem Todesdatum! 36,7 mm, 19,51 g. Kienast zu 288, Kaiser 837.2, Zetzmann 6038 (LP)" Price: 254.34 US$. 175,00 EUR

 

Your version, with 89 kills, is the more expensive one. Probably because it is rarer, not to many made before the change made.

 

Just made another discovery whilst I was comparing the two pictures!!!!

 

Your version of the medal has the WRONG date on the tombstone 12 APRIL 1918 the other medal has the correct date of 21 APRIL 1918!!! No wonder it is more sought after.

 

Good find, well done.

[Goetzdude]

Goetz made mistakes on both the kill number and the date of death when he first made the medal. I call it the "Schnapps Variety"...Goetz was prone to making mistakes when in a hurry. He made a replacement with the correct number a couple of years later. Either piece usually goes for 75-100.-EUR. Both of the struck 36mm varieties are quite common with the rarity going to the initial large, 92mm, cast bronze like this example from my collection. I, too, have the same 36 mm with the same die crack too.

 

[constanius]

Very nice too, mistakes and all.

[Goetzdude]

Very nice too, mistakes and all.

 

 

Yeah, Goetz would initially make his clay/wax model, then mould, then a crisp cast piece which would become his model for additional moulds. If he decided it would be profitable to reduce the size of the medal so that it could be more affordable he'd make a mould from the model and cast each side separately in steel...these two new models would become the master reduction models he'd place on a janvier machine to reduce and cut the design into the hubs and dies to make the smaller struck pieces. I have a bunch of these master reduction models in my collection but not one for this particular medal. Many of these models were destroyed or damaged when Goetz' shop was damaged by fire during allied bombing in WWII.

[constanius]

I have a bunch of these master reduction models in my collection but not one for this particular medal. Many of these models were destroyed or damaged when Goetz' shop was damaged by fire during allied bombing in WWII.

 

Fascinating info, thanks for that. I'd recommend everyone to visit your site, it is quite delicious, what a wonderful collection! With the bonus of some for sale.

[Goetzdude]

Fascinating info, thanks for that. I'd recommend everyone to visit your site, it is quite delicious, what a wonderful collection! With the bonus of some for sale.

 

 

Thanks....unfortunately I need to update the sales page to reflect the current pieces for sale...all of the ones you see now have been sold months ago. If anyone is interested, I sell mostly on ebay under the name har_poon

 

I still await development finalization on my full-fledged web site which will have thousands of pages, multiple galleries, both Kienast copies digitally integrated into the site and a strictly 1900-1950 German medallic forum which will focus mostly on Munich medallists. To create this is time consuming with two years already into it.

 

Sorry to siderail your post Bill

[NumisMattic2200]

WOW! now that is an awesome medal Mr. Blackhawk!.. I was interested in WWII stuff back when I was very young around 8-12 and collected a few bits of memorabilia such as a couple of old WWII helmets, a grenade, a bullet, camouflage mesh, replica rifles and of course looked at militaria books and watched all the war films from A Bridge too far to Attack Force Z. That medal is a great way of combining an old interest in the history of war with numismatics. Great acquisition.

[Blackhawk]

"Sorry to siderail your post Bill"

 

You're not siderailijng it by any means. It's always great to get some insight from an accomplished collector. I appreciate the help from both Constantius and Goetzdude.